>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Informatica World 2019, brought to you by Informatica. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Informatica World here in Las Vegas. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight along with my co-host John Furrier, we are joined by Jitesh Ghai, he is the Senior Vice President and General Manager Data Quality, Security and Governance at Informatica. Thank you so much for coming or returning to the show Jitesh. >> My pleasure, happy to be here. >> So, this is a real moment for data governance, we have the anniversary of GDPR and the California Privacy Act it's a topic at Dabos, there is growing concern among the public and lawmakers over security and privacy, give us the lay of the land from your perspective. >> Right, you know it is a moment for data governance, what's exciting in the space is governance was born out of risk and compliance and managing for risk and compliance, but really what it was mandating was healthy data management practices, how do we give the regulators comfort that our data is of high quality, that we know the lineage of where data is coming from that we know how the business relies on the data what is critical data? And while it was born to give the regulators comfort, what organizations very quickly realized is well when you democratize data, you need to give everybody that comfort, you need to give your data scientists, your data analysts, that same level of contextual understanding of their data right, where did it come from? What's the quality of it? How does the business use it, rely on it? And so that has been a tremendous opportunity for us, we've supported organizations, financial services from a BCBS 239 CCAR, counterparty credit risk, but what's happened is from a data democratization, data scale perspective, self-service analytics perspective, is what moved from terabytes to petabytes. We've moved from data warehouses, to data lakes and you can't democratize data unless there's a governed framework. I don't know, it sounds kind of like wait, democratizing data is supposed to be free data everywhere, but without some governed framework, it's a bit of a mess, and so what we're enabling organizations is the effective consumption and understanding of where their data is, discovering it, so that the right people can consume the data that they care about, the right data scientists can build the right models, the right analysts can build the right reports and the executives get the right confidence on what reports they're getting, what KPI's they're getting. >> One of the things that we talked last year, you had a couple customers on, you had told a great story, you guys had had the benefit as a long-standing company, 25 years in the private for large-customer base, but the markets changed, you mentioned governance I mean we're in the one year-anniversary of GDPR. >> Right. >> And I think everyone's kind of like OK what happened last year? More privacy laws are coming and one of the themes this year is clarity with data, but also in the industry you know access to data, making data addressable, because AI needs data sets, cloud has proven that, SAS business models, using data winning formula, that's clear if you're born in the cloud. Enterprises now want that same kind of SAS-like execution on the applications side, whether it's SAS or using AI for instance, >> Right. >> So when you have more regulation, inherent nature is to oh like more complexity, how are customers dealing with the complexity of this, because they want to free it up, but at the same time they want to make sure that they can respect the laws for individuals, but also governments aren't that smart either so you know, the balance there, what's the strategy? >> And therein lies the challenges with privacy specifically, it's not just about quality counterparty credit risk in like five or seven systems in a data warehouse, it's all the data in your enterprise, it's the data in production, there's the data in your DevOps environment, it's all your data literally, structured all the way to unstructured data like Word, PDFs, Powerpoints. And you need a governing framework around it, you need to enable organizations to be able to discover where is there sensitive information, how is there sensitive information proliferating through the organization? Is it protected? Is it not protected? And what's particularly, you know, we're all consumers, I'm pretty confident some or all of our data has been breached at some point, enabling organizations, what these privacy regulations are doing is they are giving us, as individuals, rights to go to the organizations we transact with and ask them, what are you doing with out data? Forget my data or at least tell me how you're processing it and get my consent for the data. >> Yeah, I mean policy and business models are certainly driving that and with regulation, I see that, but the question is that when you move the impact to the enterprise, you got storage drives. You store it on drives as a storage administrator you've got software abstractions with data, like you guys do. So, it's complicated, so the question is, for you, is what are customers doing now? What's the answer to all this? >> The answer really comes down to you need to scale to the scope of the problem, it's a thousand x-increase, you're going from terabytes to petabytes right? And so, you need an AI, an ML, an intelligent solution that can discover all of this information, but it can map it to John Furrier, this is where John Furrier's information is, it's in the human capital management system, the CRM system, organizations know, may start knowing whether sensitive data is, but hey don't know who it belongs to, so when you go to invoke your right to be forgotten or portability, today, what we're enabling organizations with is hey, we'll help you discover the sensitive information, but we'll also tell you who it belongs to, so that when John shows up or Rebecca, you show up, you just have to punch in their name and we'll tell you all the systems, that it's in. That is something that requires teams of database administrators, lawyers, system administrators that needs to be automated, to truly realize the potential of these privacy regulations, while enabling organizations to continue to innovate and disrupt with data. >> What's your take on whether or not consumers truly understand the scope of these privacy regulations, I mean talking about GDPR and you get the pop-ups that say do you consent and you just say yes, I just need to get to this site and so you blithely, just press yes, yes, yes so you are technically giving your consent, but do you, I mean what's your take, do consumers truly understand what they're doing here? >> You know, I think historically, we've all said yes, yes, yes, over the last, I would say two years with growing regulations and significant breaches, there is a change in customer expectations, you know, there's a stat out there in the event of a data breach, two-thirds of consumers of a particular organization blame the organization for the breach, not the hackers, right, so it's a mindshift in all of us, where you're the custodian of my data I'm counting on you, whatever organization I'm transacting with ,to ensure and preserve my privacy, ensure my data's protected. So, that's a big shift that's happened, so whether you're doing it for regulatory reasons, CCPA North America, there's several other state-wide regulations coming out or GDPR, the consumer expectation, forget regulations, it's brand preservation, it's customer trust, it's customer experience, that organizations are really having to solve for from a privacy standpoint. >> Tell what the news around yesterday around the shift of the trust pieces, because that's a huge deal. Because trust is shifting, expectations are shifting, so when you have shifting expectations, with users and buyers, customers, the experience has to shift. So, take us through what's the new things? >> Well, the new things are, you know, you look at we're enabling organizations to be data-driven, we're enabling organizations to transform, build new products, new services, be more efficient and for that, you need to enable them to get access to data. The counter, the tension on the other end is how do we get them broad-based access while ensuring privacy, right, and that's the balance. How do we enable them to be customer-centric and optimal in engaging with their customers while preserving the privacy of their customers and that really comes down to having a detailed understanding of what your critical data is, where is it in the organization and how an organization is using that data. Enabling an organization to know that they're processing data with the appropriate consent. >> What's interesting to me, when I was with press yesterday, is also the addition of how the cloud players are coming onboard, because you know, one constituent that's not mentioned in that statement is that you guys are kind of keeping an eye on, that are impacted by this, is developers, because you know developers like infrastructures coded with DevOps. Don't want to be provisioning networks and storage, they just write to the API's. Data is kind of going through that similar experience where, if I'm a developer doing an IOT app, I'm just going to use the cloud. I put the data there, I don't need to have a mismatch of mechanisms to deal with some governance compliance rules. >> Correct and that's why it needs to be built-in by design. And you know there's this connotation that- >> Explain that, what does built-in by design mean. >> Well you need to have privacy built-into how you as a business operate, how you as a DevOps team or development team, build products, if that's built-in to how you operate, you enable the innovation without falling into the pitfalls of oh you know what we broke some privacy regulations there we breached our customers trust there, we used data or engaged with them in manner that they weren't comfortable with. >> So, don't retro-fit after the fact? Think holistically on the front-end of the transformation in architecture. >> It's an enabler, in that if you do it right to begin with, you can continue to innovate and engage effectively, versus bolting it on as an afterthought and retro-fitting. >> It really seems like it is this evolution in thinking from this risk and compliance, overdoing this to check all the boxes, versus here are our constraints, but our constraints are actually liberating, is what you're saying. >> Right, but you can't democratize data, without giving the consumers of that data an understanding of the quality of that data, the trustworthiness of that data, the relevance of the data to the business, you give them that and now you're enabling your analytics, your data scientists, your analytics organizations to innovate with that data with confidence and if you do it within a framework of privacy, you're ensuring that you're preserving customer trust while you're automating and building intelligent and engaging customer experiences. >> What I love about the data business right now, is it's exciting because it's real specific examples of impact, security, you know, national security, to hackers, to just general security, privacy of the laws, But, I've seen the development angles interesting too, so when you got these two things moving, customers can ignore this, it's not like back-up and recovery where same kind of ethos is there, you don't want to think about it after the fact, you want to build it in, you know, there's certainly reasons why you do that, in case there's a disaster, but data is highly impactful all the time. This is a challenge, you guys can pull this off. >> Well you know, it's a, with privacy, it's no longer about a few systems, it's all your data and so the scope is the challenge and the scale applies for privacy, the scale applies for making data available enterprise wide and that's where you need and you know we spoke about AI needs data, well data also needs AI. And that's where we're leveraging AI and ML. Building out intelligence, to help organizations solve that problem and not do it manually. >> You know, I've said it on theCUBE, you've probably heard it many times, I say it all the time, scale is the new competitive advantage. Value is the new lock-in. No proprietary software anymore, but technology is needed. I want to ask you, you've been talking about this with some of your customers last year around data is that you need more scale, because AI needs more access to data, because the more visibility into data, the smarter, machine learning and AI applications can become. So Scale is real. What is the, what are you, you guys have some scalosity in your customers, you got the end-to-end, got the catalog and everything is kind of looking good, but you have competition How would you compare to the competition, when people say hey Jitesh, a start-up just popped out or XYZ company's got the solution, why should I go with them or you? What's the difference, what's the competitive angle? >> You know, the way we're thinking the problem is founded on governance is an enabler it's not about locking things down for risk and compliance, because you know, the regulators want to know that this particular warehouse is highly tightly controlled, it's about getting the data out there, it's about enabling end-users to have a contextual understanding when you're doing that for all of your data, within around, that's a thousand X-increase in the data, it's a thousand X-increase in your constituents, you're not supporting, the risk and compliance portions of the organization, you're supporting marketing, you're supporting sales, you're supporting business operations, supply chain, customer-onboarding and so with the problem of scale, practices of the past, which were typically manual laborious, but hey at the risk of non-compliance, we just had to deal with them, don't practically in any way scale, to the requirements of the future which is a thousand X-increase in consumers and that's where intelligence and AI and ML come in. >> The question I have for you is, where should customers store their data? Is there an answer to that on premises or in the cloud? What are they doing? >> The answer is yes, (Knight laughs) the customer should store their data, what we see, the world is going to be hybrid, mainframes are still here, on-premise will still be here many years from now. >> So you're taking the middle of the road here, so >> There's Switzerland. >> You're saying whatever they want on-premise or cloud, is there a preference you see with customers? >> Well, you know it depends on the applications , depends on regulations, historically regulations especially in financial services, have mandated a more on-premise stance, but those regulations, are also evolving and so we see, the global investment banks all of a sudden, we're having all sorts of conversations about enabling them to move select portions of their data estate to the cloud, enabling them to be more agile, so the answer is yes and it will be for a very long time to come. >> Final question, one of the most pressing problems in the technology industry is the skills gap. I want to hear your thoughts on it, how as a Senior Executive at Informatica, how worried are you about finding qualified candidates for your open-roles? >> You know, it is a challenge, good news is, we're a global organization, my teams are globally-distributed. I have teams in Europe, North America and Asia and the good part about that is if you can't find it in the valley, you can certainly find the talent elsewhere, and so while, it is a challenge, we're able to find talented engineers, software developers, data scientists, to help us innovate and build the intelligence capabilities to solve the productivity challenges, the scale challenges of data consumption. >> Jitesh, talk about the skills required for people coming out of school, take your Informatica hat off, put your expertise hat on, data guru hat, knowing that data is going to continue to grow, continue to have more impact across the board, from coding to society affix, whatever, what are some of the key skills in training, classes or courses or areas of expertise that people an dial-up or dig into that might be beneficial to them that may or may not be on the radar curriculum or, say is, part of school curriculum, >> you know we engage with universities in North America, in Europe, in Asia, we have a large development center in India and we're constantly, engaging with them. We're on various boards at various universities, advisory standpoint, big data standpoint and what we're seeing is as we engage with these organizations, we're able to feed back on where the market is going, what the requirements are, the nature of data science, the enabling technologies such as platforms like Spark, languages like Python and so we're working with these schools to share our perspectives, they in turn, are incorporating this into their curriculums and how they train future data scientists. >> When you see a young gun out there that's kicking butt and taking names and data, what are some of the backgrounds? Is it math, is it philosophy, is there a certain kind of pattern that you've seen as the makeup of just the killer data person? >> You know, it's interesting, you mention philosophy, I'm a big, I've hired many philosophy majors that have been some of the best architects, having said that, from a data science perspective, it's all about stats, it's all about math and while that's an important skillset to have, we're also focused on making their lives easier, they're spending 70% of their time, doing data engineering versus data science and so while they are being educated from a stats, from a data science foundation, when they come into the industry, they end up spend 70% of their time doing data engineering, that's where we're helping them as well. >> So study your Socrates and study your stats. >> I like that. (Knight and Furrier laugh) >> Jitesh, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> My pleasure, happy to be here, thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier, you are watching theCUBE.

David it's just gonna call in like basically live feel more nos Vegas Nevada execute again it's the 10 covering knowledge 15 brought to you by service now hello everyone welcome to the cube this is our flagship program we go out to the events in the correct the city okla noise I'm John furry the founder silicon they enjoy my coach Dave vellante co-founder Wikibon org and networks I to be in Las Vegas live for three days of wall-to-wall coverage of service now's no 15 knowledge 15 hashtag no 15 go to the crowd chat / no 15 join the conversation our first guest is Frank's lubin president/ceo source now great to see you again thanks for having us thanks much absolutely the keynote was great i mean in the world's changing IT cloud vmware's had an announcement about native apps on the cloud customers are changing business models are changing talk about what you get to do house that you had a big stock drop in the past week and value is that a sentiment of the of the of the Wall Street dynamic products what is it about the business right now with clouds specifically the business model for your customers it's flywheel the SAS models what's what's going on what's your take on all that flying cloud companies and obviously well I ought to got a lot of the high we're one of them you know we're priced to perfection right and that's that's not an easy place to be for for for anybody and you know we're not really focused on that it's this is a marathon every quarter is one mile marker he can't get too excited about you know one versus the other we're really pacing ourselves your building you know an enterprise that's going to be here for for a long time and our focus is not just on modernizing what what people are doing it's focusing on transforming what people are doing and the emphasis that we place on everything as a service structure workflow approaches getting away from message oriented ways of doing things like email is enormous sea change right there is there's over 100 million PDFs out their forms that people have to download and fill out what somebody else then has to scan and reenter right the world is ripe for this type of innovation the technology is here all we need to do is apply it the start okay so I said when I talked yesterday and I said any successful 12 billion dollar valuation company's going to have a day like friday but I've noticed post the financial analyst discussion yesterday things have calmed down a little bit so who knows maybe it's a buying opportunity I wanted to tie it into the TAM expansion that we've seen when you first took this company public everybody looked at it as a very small niche and it took you and Mike scarpelli and others a while to sort of educate Wall Street on the size of the potential and we're now starting to see that come to fruition you guys talk about expanding into the business side and now you're doing it you talk about going into mobile you talk about you know new innovations at the SMB why is it that you're so successful at executing at what you're doing is that the platform is that the people is that the customers I wonder if you could describe that a little bit what's the magic formula are fundamentally a platform company we that was not always well understood even before I joined the company and I talked to Fred Lunney the founder we were very well aware of the opportunity to expand just dramatically beyond the boundaries of the initial application set which was the IGM set of applications it's just how to do that right when you peel away the veneer the rhetoric the nomenclature you know what you see is a workflow an orchestration platform this is so broadly applicable right what these knowledge conferences are all about is to show people what is possible on this platform and you know all we have to do is take the horse to water soda drink and then you know they go on their own right this is a place where people come to get inspired platform and if you seen from some of the examples that we had on stage this morning and people are not tackling crm applications what service now you know why there's really nothing there's really no boundaries in terms of service management for us to tackle workflows and orchestrations like that right so the world is your oyster II and there's really no place that we we can go with this platform all we got to do is empower and energize the audience that you have here and the fact that they show up in such huge numbers as evidence that were we're succeeding at that right good all the events it's the same kind of theme Internet of Things Big Data have paced are changing clouds and innovator what is it about the cloud and your platform and your customers in terms of the business models what is it about the innovation that's going on right without business must change what specifically can you highlight and get some example because you have a lot of customers we were just talking that the cubbies are sending dozens of people here this event it's not just a boondoggle there's some real work getting done so there's a huge transformation see what is it about the business model now that's changing what are you guys doing turn on your platform this conference is called knowledge for a reason people come here to get knowledge right that's right the labs and training and all this kind of stuff but the most important thing to understand about service now what we did with the individuals really lowered the skills profile and the skill demands to be able to access this level of functional and we really did that by an order of magnitude this wasn't just a platform for programmers people that really have procedural programming skills we really took that out of the equation and people have Excel style skills people will understand the rows and columns and data types that's enough to know to be able to go up okay now what happens in that process we empower very large groups of people in our case IT people to basically take control back over this platform you know in Prior generations of this class of software they were always dependent very small we were people that weren't very accessible and very expensive to do thanks for them how they're doing that is what has unleashed explosion creativity let's talk a little bit about your keynote everything as a service was your big theme EAS sort of acronym what is everything is the service number one second question is is there an analogue to vm sprawl is there a potential for server sprawl what do you what are you telling customers about that are they asking you questions but start with what does everything is a service what does that mean everything is what service means taking work work in the sense the repeatable activities things we do over and over again digging it out of the realm of messaging email text phone and putting it into structure workflow we essentially invent that dress as once without best practices really tune and optimize that process and every single time we do that activity we do it exactly the same way and we enforce the business rules the logic upfront stupid enough to thinking like I always is the silly example an organization I lose my security badge or I mangled in the door I need a new on what do I do well you know I Massey Hill I just asked my admin you figure it out okay but everybody else starts roaming the halls like where do i go to go to the front desk maybe you know that thing employees have to have a place to go for their service needs whatever it is HR related facilities related maybe have a parking issue and you should be able to search navigate themselves to a place where they can make a request and then that request is no different than sending a package through fedex or ordering something on amazon information it's now following you you don't have to go and chase it anymore right oh there's a big inversion of how we work i mean we often target service now but we're changing how we work because we're going we're getting away from the structure messaging woman be structure workflow that's what everything is a service is about regard to aquino but so second part of I want to talk about that is my question is there a dark side to that is there a risk of just too many services service sprawl or do you have service for that is there an app for that yeah talk about that logo the obviously during our keynote we actually spoke explicitly to that point because you're concerning your race is legitimate people are saying hey you know DevOps is great you know empowering all these groups to publish their own services that's great but now I'm going to lose control I'm going to lose visibility and we'll lose accountability i'm going to have compliance security problems and so on what we do is you know we actually maintain the transparency the visibility and the control while people are doing things so it doesn't become the Wild West that we've had in Prior generations of software >> Frank talk about what you're seeing in big data honestly you know we didn't cover that space this doesn't seem to be its own little market but certainly medupe to some stuff going on but companies are looking at Big Data certainly in data as it advantaged in some of the things whether it's IT and or an apple agents what's your vision and what is what our customers doing with the day how's the NIT date is great and everyone's the service date is enabler you look at that and how do you find your customs look at it are very transactionally intense but so our systems they're not data rich in the sense that we deal with enormous volumes of data so it's a little bit of a different model and during the keynote what I talked about it's not like they what's hiding your data we can't figure out what's going on the data by structuring the data right what big data tries to do they're trying to figure out what's going on in unstructured data really really hard to do we structure the data so hence it's very very easy for us to analyze the dashboard exactly what's going on but our focus is not so much on big data it's on real time data the real time dimension is something that is going to become huge because people are demanding real-time information is just not interesting to look at data it's 12 24 hours old and because we are sitting on life data the ability to represent it so you can see your business in action right that is insanely exciting for for executives and managers network magic was hot in the old days with the network little but now the way date is got that same kind of paradigm where you have active data passive data and by melding together they can create values that mean we the CIO that we talked to they what you mean by real time today yeah I said look where I want to get you there's one my office just wall-to-wall LED panels and I want to see every every pocket of activity I want to see it executing in real time whether it's good better and different setting threshold seeing exceptions and says I want to be it's like watching the stock market I want to watch my my business that way and that is what we're going to focus on very different from data oceans and data legs and all this kind of stuff we've already structured the data we're not going to have the problem of big data the three of us started our careers without email and it was amazing productivity bump into our lives when we got email but now email is this productivity killer you talked about it in your keynote you guys did a survey is that basically forty percent of a time is spent on admin tasks and employees time I know judge doesn't manage I'll give your calculation i saw was manager with just even you know higher salaries but so how much of that can you actually reduce and what a customer is actually doing around that well it can be reduced by orders of magnitude you can't make it go away I mean people have needs but being able to make those needs fully automated very intuitive very productive it's absolutely possible right I mean 42 days a week almost half time on tasks that have nothing to do or your job is absurd I think this is almost a dirty little secret of business death we have invested in everything except our own internal workplace productivity right we're stuck in the 1980s if not the 1970s and who's going to put on that mantle write it and we're always trying to drive IT to take on that mantle because who else CEOs typically are focused about revenue right image presentation right coo CFO's those are the people that should be driving the internal productivity challenge sorry just that we just haven't made any progress there in decades and the acceleration now is a significant I start guy an email Facebook say I just finally gave my blackberry you mentioned iPhone and your kita he's still using the blackberry I was like that's actually a great scandalous blog post opportunity but are you mentioned iphone in your keynote moment of this is changing the world certainly edge of the network smartphones and we also hear from customers want to be more Apple night so what's your what were you hearing from customers and they say I don't want to be like the 80s and 90s I want to be more like Apple meaning kind of like the iPhone and the innovation that they bring what they brought to that or you guys been using uber as an example or open table as an example that's that modern vibe for the customer what are they trying to get to in an environment what's their outcome what are you hearing customers the first aspect is the series experience itself in other words what does would like to do what you want to get done essentially we're transactional platform we're not a hanging around platform like a social system we twitter has no no point no purpose it's just nice to shoot things out into the ether and help somebody sees it our systems are not like that it's about performing a unit of work something very specific about the beginning it doesn't end and there's things that happen in between the result it's very different that way uber is also a transactional app I want to hail a cab I need a ride opentable is transactional act I want a reservation there's a very specific end point to that unit of work and this is where technology can be incredibly helpful to get you there faster i use the Gulf example you know fewer strokes is better right and as people want they want have grubert a lot and I find that user experience my blowing compared to trying to call or or hail account it's cheaper and it scales incredibly well right but if wherever you are or whenever you are it seems to be there's cars around this quite impressive App Store like model the enterprise has been kicked around for a while is that service cataloging uber shows the real-time aspect of services needs you know demand in real time but in the back-end service catalog that more apples to the apple store at the back end its lights out light speed right in other words it's just like Amazon right everything is the speed of light until I got to pick something off the shelf the real world kicks in and i have to ship something the same thing same thing with fedex I mean the information processing aspect of FedEx is what makes fedex special in fact that they have planes and trucks you know it is not what your user experience focuses on yeah you got minimal exposure to that you are you're on your way to a billion dollars here shortly you've laid out a plan for four billion by the league 2020 correct with the the financial analyst a lot of people say well one of these guys going to make money you have indicated before you you're right now after scale after growth and what if you could address that um we actually were profitable are you sure I mean we were you could make a lot more money if you want to do but you're going for growth I should have clarified that question better you guys can be wildly profitable if you skip down and just reach over office we've always said and by the way you know one of the things that that our business model really focuses on is making sure that the cash equation really work so on a cash flow basis we're doing extraordinarily well because it's a subscription model you know the profitability equation is a little squishy it's more accounting them than economic which is why the focus on cash our investors focus on growth in the next thing to focus is on this cash right and after they get generally accounting representation of our at some point the law of large numbers kicks in and that's really maybe out in the business out a target model yesterday I was we put updated for the financial analyst shows you exactly where the leverage is coming from transparent supplies for peace I want to let's do a great job of that very drill into on the he said amazon amazon does a great job executing and near a great executors and certainly proven that we do successful with the company but they're constantly innovating the new product announcements debía new announcements is that the new competitive advantage scale and stickiness through rapidly iteration of new features is that this is just a one-off outlier with amazon you see no price it be more like that's one of them  you see that with Tesla they've changed the car industry there's constant updates to the cars right a changes of driving experience and that that model of rapid iteration is really the new normal you know back to the real time thing it gets really boring when you get an update every 18 months you think we don't tolerate those kind of time friends anymore and lag is not a good ending our but I you know software gotta ask you a final question I know you getting we're getting a puppy you get very busy schedule thanks to spend the time with us as well I'll see you had a your competitive sailor and following your career right outside sirs now you got a boat for the nuchal hand you mentioned data ocean data legs big big fan of data ocean I want you to share perspective from what you've learned sailing and being successful winning and sailing with how to navigate an idea this as a c-level executive or a CEO CIO or some of the trenches what lessons can sail in your experience is sailing and running service now what would you share with the folks out there as they try to look at their transitional transformation I teach transformation the others there's a lot of analogs if you will between sailing and business because it's this multi-dimensional game that we play you know in sailing it's about technology it's about how great your crew is it's I'll get your boat is it's the weather is what the competition is doing all those things you have in business so people always want to write it yourselves he's like another you know another another brutal contest township and that's that's all true it's very multi-dimensional and finding your high leverage entry point because you know it's very easy to do super business super busy and business and really not move the dial right so understanding where leverage exists what opportunities are that's really the art form I Frank great to have I know you're busy to getting them getting of the big nokia pricing the president/ceo of service now here live in Las Vegas is to Cuba railroad next guest live in three days wall-to-wall coverage here at no.15 join the conversation crowd chef net / no 15 right now