(upbeat music) >> We're back with Charley Dublin. He's the Vice President of Product Management at Acquia. Great to see you, Charley welcome to theCUBE. >> Nice to meet you Dave. >> Acquia, tell us about the company. >> Sure, so Acquia is the largest and best provider of Drupal hosting capabilities. We rank number two in the digital experience platform space, just behind Adobe. Very strong business growing well and innovating every day. >> Drupal open source, super deep high quality content management system. And more experience, you call it an experience platform. >> An experience platform, open, flexible. We want our customers to have choice the ability to solve their problems how they want leveraging the power of the open source community. >> What were the big challenges? Just describe your, kind of the business drivers. We're going to talk about StormForge but the things that you were facing some of the challenges that's kind of led you to StormForge. >> Sure, so our objective first is to provide the best experience with Drupal. So that entails lots of capabilities around ease of use for Drupal itself. But that has to run on a world class platform. It has to be the most performance. It has to be the most secure. It needs to be flexible to enable customers to run Drupal however they want to run Drupal. And so that involves the ability to support thousands of different kinds of modules that come out of the community. We want our customers to have choice with Drupal and to be able to support those choices on our platform. >> So optionality is key. Sometimes that creates other challenges. Like you've got one of everything. How do you deal with that challenge? >> That's a great question. Every strength is a form of weakness. And so our objective is really first to provide that choice but to do it in a cost efficient way. So we try to provide reference architectures for customers, opinionation for our customers to standardize take out some of the complexity that they might have if everything were a snowflake. But our objective is really to support their needs and err on the side of that flexibility. >> So you guys had to go through a major replatforming effort around containers and Kubernetes can you talk about that and what role StormForge played? >> Sure, so tied to the last point, our objective is to provide customers the highest performance, most secure platform. The entire industry of course is moving to Kubernetes and leveraging containers. We are a large consumer of AWS Services and are undergoing a major replatforming away from Legacy AWS towards Kubernetes and containers. And so that major replatforming effort is intending to enable customers to run applications how they want to and the power of Kubernetes and containers is to support that. And so we looked at StormForge as a way for us to right size resource capacity to support our customer's applications. >> I love it, AWS is now Legacy. But Andy Jassy one time said that if they had to redo Amazon they'd it in Lambda using serverless and so, it's been around a long time now. Okay so what were the outcomes that you were seeking? Was it, better management, cost reduction and how'd that go? >> Our customers run a wide range of applications. We support customers leveraging Drupal in every industry. Globally we do business in 30 different countries. And so what you have is a very wide range of applications and consumer and consumption models. And so we felt that leveraging StormForge would put us in a position where we'd be able to right size resource to those different kinds of applications. Essentially let the platform align to how customers wanted to operate their applications. And so StormForge's capability in conjunction with Kubernetes and containers really puts us in a position where customers are able to get the performance that they want, and when they need it on demand. A lot of the auto scaling capabilities that you get from Kubernetes and containers supports that. And so it really enables customers to run their applications how they want to functionally, as well as from a performance perspective. >> So this move toward containers and microservices sort of modern application development coincides with a modern platform like StormForge. And so there are, I'm sure there are alternatives out there, why StormForge? Maybe you could explain a little bit more about why, from your perspective what it does and why you chose them. >> So we leverage AWS in many respects in terms of the underlying platform, but we are a very strong DIY for how that platform supports Drupal applications. We view our expertise as being the best of Drupal. And so we felt like for us to true really maximize Kubernetes and containers and the power of those underlying technologies. On the one hand allows us to automate more and do more for customers. On the other side of it, it puts a tremendous burden on the level of expertise in order to do that well for every customer every day at scale. And so that at scale part of that was the challenge. And so we leverage StormForge to enable us to rightsize applications for performance, provide us cost benefits, allocate what you need when you need it for our customers. And that at scale piece is a critical part. We could do elements of it internally. We tried to do elements of that internally, but as you start getting to scale from, a few apps to hundreds of apps to certainly across our fleet of tens of thousands of applications, you really need something that leverages machine learning. You really need a technology that's integrated well within AWS and StormForge provided that solution. >> Make sure I got this right. So it sounds like you sort of from a skill standpoint transitioned or applied your skills from turning knobs if you will, to automation and scale. >> Correct. >> And what was that like? Was the team leaning into that, loving it? Was it a, a challenging thing for you guys to get there? >> That's a good question. The benefit in the way that StormForge applies it. So they leverage machine learning to enable us to make better decisions. So we still have the control elements, but we have much greater insight into what that would mean ahead of time before customers would be affected. So we still have the knobs we need, but we're able to do it at scale. And then from the automation point, it allows us to focus our deep expertise on making Drupal and the core hosting platform capabilities awesome. Sort of the stuff and resource allocation resource consumption. That's an enabler we can outsource that to StormForge >> This is not batch it's, you're basically doing this in sort of near realtime Optimize Live, is the capability, maybe you can describe what it is. >> So Optimize Live is new, we're in testing with that. We've done extensive testing with StormForge on the core call it decision making logic that allows for the right sizing of consumption and resources for our customer application. So that has already been tested. So the core engine's been tested. Optimize Live allows us to do that in real time to make policy decisions across our fleet on what's the right trade off between performance cost, other parameters. Again, it informs our decision making and our management of our platform. That would be very, very difficult otherwise. Without StormForge we'd have to do massive data aggregation. We'd have to have machine learning and additional infrastructure to manage to derive this information, and, and, and. And that is not our core business. We don't want to be doing that. We want insights to manage our platform to enable customers and StormForge for provides that. >> So it's kind of human in the loop thing. Hey, here's what like our recommendation or here's some options that you might want to, here's a path that you want to go down, but it's not taking that action for you necessarily. You don't want that. You want to make sure that the experts are have a hand in it still, is that correct? >> Correct, you still want the experts to have a hand in it but you don't want them to have a hand in it on each individual app. You need that, that machine learning capability that insight that allows you to do that at scale. >> So if you had to step back and think about your relationship with StormForge what was the business impact of bringing them in? >> First, from a time to market perspective we're able to get to market with a higher performing more cost effective solution earlier. So there's that benefit. Second benefit to the earlier point is that we're able to make resource allocation decisions focused on where our core competency is, not into the guts of Kubernetes containers and the like. Third is that the machine learning talent that StormForge brings to the table is world class. I've run machine learning teams, data science teams and would put them in the top 1% of any team that I've worked with in terms of their expertise. The logic and decision making and insights is outstanding. So we can get to the best decision, the optimal decision much more quickly. And then when you accompany that with the newer product in Optimize Live with that automation component you mentioned, all the better. So we're able to make decisions quicker, get it implemented in our platform and realize the benefits. What customers get from that is much better performance of their applications. More real time, higher, able to scale more dynamically. What we get is resource efficiency and our network and platform efficiency. We're not over allocating a capacity that costs us more money than we should. We're under allocating capacity that could have a lower performance solution for our customers. >> So that puts money in your pocket and your customers are happier. So there are higher renewal rates, less churn, high air prices over time as you add more capabilities. >> That's correct. >> What's it like, new application approach, Kubernetes containers, fine. Okay I need a modern platform but it's a relatively new company StormForge. What's it like working with them? >> Their talent level is world class. I wasn't familiar with them when I joined Acquia came to know them and been very impressed. There's many other providers in the market that will speak to some similar capabilities and will make many claims. But from our assessment our view is that they're the right partner for us, they're the right size, they're flexible, excellent team. They've evolved their technology roadmap very quickly. They deliver on their promises and commits a very good team to work with. So I've been very impressed for such an early stage company to deliver and to support our business so rapidly. So I think that's a strength. And then I think again the quality that people that's been manifested in the product itself, it's a high quality product. I think it's unique to the market. >> So Napoleon Hill famous writer, thinker, he wrote "Think and Grow Rich." If you haven't read it, check it out. One of his concepts is this a lever, small lever can move a big rock. It can be very powerful. Do you see StormForge as having that kind of effect on your business that change on your business? >> I do. Like I said, I think the engagement with them has proven, and this isn't, debatable based on the results that we've had with them. We ran that team through the ringer to validate the technology. Again, we'd heard lots of promises from other companies. Ran that team through the ringer with extensive testing across many customers, large and small, many use cases, to really stress test their capabilities. And they came out well ahead of any metric we put forth even well ahead of claims that they had coming into the engagement. They exceeded that. And so that's why I'm here. Why I'm an advocate. Why I think they're an outstanding company with a tremendous amount of potential. >> Thinking about, what can you tell us about where you want to take the company and the partnership with StormForge. >> I think the main next step is for us to engage with StormForge to drive automation drive decisioning, as we expand and move more and more customers over to our new platform. We're going to uncover use cases, different challenges as we go. So I think the, it's a learning process for both both sides, but I think the it's been successful so far and has a lot potential. >> Sounds like you had a great business and a great new partnership. So thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, appreciate it. >> Thank you very much, appreciate your time. >> My pleasure. And thank you for watching theCUBE, you're global leader in enterprise tech coverage. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> We're back with Charley Dublin. He's the Vice President of Product Management at Acquia. Great to see you, Charley welcome to theCUBE. >> Nice to meet you Dave. >> Acquia, tell us about the company. >> Sure, so Acquia is the largest and best provider of Drupal hosting capabilities. We rank number two in the digital experience platform space, just behind Adobe. Very strong business growing well and innovating every day. >> Drupal open source, super deep high quality content management system. And more experience, you call it an experience platform. >> An experience platform, open, flexible. We want our customers to have choice the ability to solve their problems how they want leveraging the power of the open source community. >> What were the big challenges? Just describe your, kind of the business drivers. We're going to talk about StormForge but the things that you were facing some of the challenges that's kind of led you to StormForge. >> Sure, so our objective first is to provide the best experience with Drupal. So that entails lots of capabilities around ease of use for Drupal itself. But that has to run on a world class platform. It has to be the most performance. It has to be the most secure. It needs to be flexible to enable customers to run Drupal however they want to run Drupal. And so that involves the ability to support thousands of different kinds of modules that come out of the community. We want our customers to have choice with Drupal and to be able to support those choices on our platform. >> So optionality is key. Sometimes that creates other challenges. Like you've got one of everything. How do you deal with that challenge? >> That's a great question. Every strength is a form of weakness. And so our objective is really first to provide that choice but to do it in a cost efficient way. So we try to provide reference architectures for customers, opinionation for our customers to standardize take out some of the complexity that they might have if everything were a snowflake. But our objective is really to support their needs and err on the side of that flexibility. >> So you guys had to go through a major replatforming effort around containers and Kubernetes can you talk about that and what role StormForge played? >> Sure, so tied to the last point, our objective is to provide customers the highest performance, most secure platform. The entire industry of course is moving to Kubernetes and leveraging containers. We are a large consumer of AWS Services and are undergoing a major replatforming away from Legacy AWS towards Kubernetes and containers. And so that major replatforming effort is intending to enable customers to run applications how they want to and the power of Kubernetes and containers is to support that. And so we looked at StormForge as a way for us to right size resource capacity to support our customer's applications. >> I love it, AWS is now Legacy. But Andy Jassy one time said that if they had to redo Amazon they'd it in Lambda using serverless and so, it's been around a long time now. Okay so what were the outcomes that you were seeking? Was it, better management, cost reduction and how'd that go? >> Our customers run a wide range of applications. We support customers leveraging Drupal in every industry. Globally we do business in 30 different countries. And so what you have is a very wide range of applications and consumer and consumption models. And so we felt that leveraging StormForge would put us in a position where we'd be able to right size resource to those different kinds of applications. Essentially let the platform align to how customers wanted to operate their applications. And so StormForge's capability in conjunction with Kubernetes and containers really puts us in a position where customers are able to get the performance that they want, and when they need it on demand. A lot of the auto scaling capabilities that you get from Kubernetes and containers supports that. And so it really enables customers to run their applications how they want to functionally, as well as from a performance perspective. >> So this move toward containers and microservices sort of modern application development coincides with a modern platform like StormForge. And so there are, I'm sure there are alternatives out there, why StormForge? Maybe you could explain a little bit more about why, from your perspective what it does and why you chose them. >> So we leverage AWS in many respects in terms of the underlying platform, but we are a very strong DIY for how that platform supports Drupal applications. We view our expertise as being the best of Drupal. And so we felt like for us to true really maximize Kubernetes and containers and the power of those underlying technologies. On the one hand allows us to automate more and do more for customers. On the other side of it, it puts a tremendous burden on the level of expertise in order to do that well for every customer every day at scale. And so that at scale part of that was the challenge. And so we leverage StormForge to enable us to rightsize applications for performance, provide us cost benefits, allocate what you need when you need it for our customers. And that at scale piece is a critical part. We could do elements of it internally. We tried to do elements of that internally, but as you start getting to scale from, a few apps to hundreds of apps to certainly across our fleet of tens of thousands of applications, you really need something that leverages machine learning. You really need a technology that's integrated well within AWS and StormForge provided that solution. >> Make sure I got this right. So it sounds like you sort of from a skill standpoint transitioned or applied your skills from turning knobs if you will, to automation and scale. >> Correct. >> And what was that like? Was the team leaning into that, loving it? Was it a, a challenging thing for you guys to get there? >> That's a good question. The benefit in the way that StormForge applies it. So they leverage machine learning to enable us to make better decisions. So we still have the control elements, but we have much greater insight into what that would mean ahead of time before customers would be affected. So we still have the knobs we need, but we're able to do it at scale. And then from the automation point, it allows us to focus our deep expertise on making Drupal and the core hosting platform capabilities awesome. Sort of the stuff and resource allocation resource consumption. That's an enabler we can outsource that to StormForge >> This is not batch it's, you're basically doing this in sort of near realtime Optimize Live, is the capability, maybe you can describe what it is. >> So Optimize Live is new, we're in testing with that. We've done extensive testing with StormForge on the core call it decision making logic that allows for the right sizing of consumption and resources for our customer application. So that has already been tested. So the core engine's been tested. Optimize Live allows us to do that in real time to make policy decisions across our fleet on what's the right trade off between performance cost, other parameters. Again, it informs our decision making and our management of our platform. That would be very, very difficult otherwise. Without StormForge we'd have to do massive data aggregation. We'd have to have machine learning and additional infrastructure to manage to derive this information, and, and, and. And that is not our core business. We don't want to be doing that. We want insights to manage our platform to enable customers and StormForge for provides that. >> So it's kind of human in the loop thing. Hey, here's what like our recommendation or here's some options that you might want to, here's a path that you want to go down, but it's not taking that action for you necessarily. You don't want that. You want to make sure that the experts are have a hand in it still, is that correct? >> Correct, you still want the experts to have a hand in it but you don't want them to have a hand in it on each individual app. You need that, that machine learning capability that insight that allows you to do that at scale. >> So if you had to step back and think about your relationship with StormForge what was the business impact of bringing them in? >> First, from a time to market perspective we're able to get to market with a higher performing more cost effective solution earlier. So there's that benefit. Second benefit to the earlier point is that we're able to make resource allocation decisions focused on where our core competency is, not into the guts of Kubernetes containers and the like. Third is that the machine learning talent that StormForge brings to the table is world class. I've run machine learning teams, data science teams and would put them in the top 1% of any team that I've worked with in terms of their expertise. The logic and decision making and insights is outstanding. So we can get to the best decision, the optimal decision much more quickly. And then when you accompany that with the newer product in Optimize Live with that automation component you mentioned, all the better. So we're able to make decisions quicker, get it implemented in our platform and realize the benefits. What customers get from that is much better performance of their applications. More real time, higher, able to scale more dynamically. What we get is resource efficiency and our network and platform efficiency. We're not over allocating a capacity that costs us more money than we should. We're under allocating capacity that could have a lower performance solution for our customers. >> So that puts money in your pocket and your customers are happier. So there are higher renewal rates, less churn, high air prices over time as you add more capabilities. >> That's correct. >> What's it like, new application approach, Kubernetes containers, fine. Okay I need a modern platform but it's a relatively new company StormForge. What's it like working with them? >> Their talent level is world class. I wasn't familiar with them when I joined Acquia came to know them and been very impressed. There's many other providers in the market that will speak to some similar capabilities and will make many claims. But from our assessment our view is that they're the right partner for us, they're the right size, they're flexible, excellent team. They've evolved their technology roadmap very quickly. They deliver on their promises and commits a very good team to work with. So I've been very impressed for such an early stage company to deliver and to support our business so rapidly. So I think that's a strength. And then I think again the quality that people that's been manifested in the product itself, it's a high quality product. I think it's unique to the market. >> So Napoleon Hill famous writer, thinker, he wrote "Think and Grow Rich." If you haven't read it, check it out. One of his concepts is this a lever, small lever can move a big rock. It can be very powerful. Do you see StormForge as having that kind of effect on your business that change on your business? >> I do. Like I said, I think the engagement with them has proven, and this isn't, debatable based on the results that we've had with them. We ran that team through the ringer to validate the technology. Again, we'd heard lots of promises from other companies. Ran that team through the ringer with extensive testing across many customers, large and small, many use cases, to really stress test their capabilities. And they came out well ahead of any metric we put forth even well ahead of claims that they had coming into the engagement. They exceeded that. And so that's why I'm here. Why I'm an advocate. Why I think they're an outstanding company with a tremendous amount of potential. >> Thinking about, what can you tell us about where you want to take the company and the partnership with StormForge. >> I think the main next step is for us to engage with StormForge to drive automation drive decisioning, as we expand and move more and more customers over to our new platform. We're going to uncover use cases, different challenges as we go. So I think the, it's a learning process for both both sides, but I think the it's been successful so far and has a lot potential. >> Sounds like you had a great business and a great new partnership. So thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, appreciate it. >> Thank you very much, appreciate your time. >> My pleasure. And thank you for watching theCUBE, you're global leader in enterprise tech coverage. (upbeat music)

(gentle upbeat music) >> People hate to be sold, but they love to buy. We become what we think about, think, and grow rich. If you want to gather honey, don't kick over the beehive. The world is replete with time-tested advice and motivational ideas for aspiring salespeople, Dale Carnegie, Napoleon Hill, Norman Vincent Peale, Earl Nightingale, and many others have all published classics with guidance that when followed closely, almost always leads to success. More modern personalities have emerged in the internet era, like Tony Robbins, and Gary Vaynerchuk, and Angela Duckworth. But for the most part, they've continued to rely on book publishing, seminars, and high value consulting to peddle their insights and inspire action. Welcome to this video exclusive on theCUBE. This is Dave Vellante, and I'm pleased to welcome back Professor Mark Roberge, who is one of the Managing Directors at Stage 2 Capital, and Paul Fifield, who's the CEO and Co-Founder of Sales Impact Academy. Gentlemen, welcome. Great to see you. >> You too Dave and thanks. >> All right, let's get right into it. Paul, you guys are announcing today a $4 million financing round. It comprises $3 million in a seed round led by Stage 2 and a million dollar in debt financing. So, first of all, congratulations. Paul, why did you start Sales Impact Academy? >> Cool, well, I think my background is sort of two times CRO, so I've built two reasonably successful companies. Built a hundred plus person teams. And so I've got kind of this firsthand experience of having to learn literally everything on the job whilst delivering these very kind of rapid, like achieving these very rapid growth targets. And so when I came out of those two journeys, I literally just started doing some voluntary teaching in and around London where I now live. I spend a bunch of time over in New York, and literally started this because I wanted to sort of kind of give back, but just really wanted to start helping people who were just really, really struggling in high pressure environments. And that's both leadership from sense of revenue leadership people, right down to sort of frontline SDRs. And I think as I started just doing this voluntary teaching, I kind of realized that actually the sort of global education system has done is a massive, massive disservice, right? I actually call it the greatest educational travesty of the last 50 years, where higher education has entirely overlooked sales as a profession. And the knock-on consequences of that have been absolutely disastrous for our profession. Partly that the profession is seen as a bit sort of embarrassing to be a part of. You kind of like go get a sales job if you can't get a degree. But more than that, the core fundamental within revenue teams and within sales people is now completely lacking 'cause there's no structured formal kind of like learning out there. So that's really the problem we're trying to solve on the kind of like the skill side. >> Great. Okay. And mark, always good to have you on, and I got to ask you. So even though, I know this is the wheelhouse for you and your partners, and of course, you've got a deep bench of LPs, but lay out the investment thesis here. What's the core problem that you saw and how are you looking at the market? >> Yeah, sure, Dave. So this one was a special one for me. We've spoken in the past. I mean, just personally I've always had a similar passion to Paul that it's amazing how important sales execution is to all companies, nevermind just the startup ecosystem. And I've always personally been motivated by anything that can help the startup ecosystem increase their success. Part of why I teach at Harvard and try to change some of the stuff that Paul's talking about, which is like, it's amazing how little education is done around sales. But in this particular one, not only personally was I excited about, but from a fun perspective, we've got to look at the economic outcomes. And we've been thinking a lot about the sales tech stack. It's evolved a ton in the last couple of decades. We've gone from the late '90s where every sales VP was just, they had a thing called the CRM that none of their reps even used, right? And we've come so far in 20 years, we've got all these amazing tools that help us cold call, that help us send emails efficiently and automatically and track everything, but nothing's really happened on the education side. And that's really the enormous gap that we've seen is, these organizations being much more proactive around adopting technology that can prove sales execution, but nothing on the education side. And the other piece that we saw is, it's almost like all these companies are reinventing the wheel of looking in the upcoming year, having a dozen sales people to hire, and trying to put together a sales enablement program within their organization to teach salespeople sales 101. Like how to find a champion, how to develop a budget, how to develop sense of urgency. And what Paul and team can do in the first phase of essay, is can sort of centralize that, so that all of these organizations can benefit from the best content and the best instructors for their team. >> So Paul, exactly, thank you, mark. Exactly what do you guys do? What do you sell? I'm curious, is this sort of, I'm thinking in my head, is this E-learning, is it really part of the sales stack? Maybe you could help us understand that better. >> Well, I think this problem of having to upscale teams has been around like forever. And kind of going back to the kind of education problem, it's what's wild is that we would never accept this of our lawyers, our accountants, or HR professionals. Imagine like someone in your finance team arriving on day one and they're searching YouTube to try and work out how to like put a balance sheet together. So it's a chronic, chronic problem. And so the way that we're addressing this, and I think the problem is well understood, but there's always been a terrible market, sort of product market fit for how the problem gets solved. So as mark was saying, typically it's in-house revenue leaders who themselves have got massive gaps in their knowledge, hack together some internal learning that is just pretty poor, 'cause it's not really their skillset. The other alternative is bringing in really expensive consultants, but they're consultants with a very single worldview and the complexity of a modern revenue organization is very, very high these days. And so one consultant is not going to really kind of like cover every topic you need. And then there's the kind of like fairly old fashioned sales training companies that just come in, one big hit, super expensive and then sort of leave again. So the sort of product market fit to solve, has always been a bit pretty bad. So what we've done is we've created a subscription model. We've essentially productized skills development. The way that we've done that is we teach live instruction. So one of the big challenges Andreessen Horowitz put a post out around this so quite recently, one of the big problems of online learning is that this kind of huge repository of online learning, which puts all the onus on the learner to have the discipline to go through these courses and consume them in an on-demand way is actually they're pretty ineffective. We see sort of completion rates of like 7 to 8%. So we've always gone from a live instruction model. So the sort of ingredients are the absolute very best people in the world in their very specific skill teaching live classes just two hours per week. So we're not overwhelming the learners who are already in work, and they have targets, and they've got a lot of pressure. And we have courses that last maybe four to like 12 hours over two to sort of six to seven weeks. So highly practical live instruction. We have 70, 80, sometimes even 90% completion rates of the sort of live class experience, and then teams then rapidly put that best practice into practice and see amazing results in things like top of funnel, or conversion, or retention. >> So live is compulsory and I presume on-demand? If you want to refresh you have an on demand option? >> Yeah, everything's recorded, so you can kind of catch up on a class if you've missed it, But that live instruction is powerful because it's kind of in your calendar, right? So you show up. But the really powerful thing, actually, is that entire teams within companies can actually learn at exactly the same pace. So we teach it eight o'clock Pacific, 11 o'clock Eastern, >> 4: 00 PM in the UK, and 5:00 PM Europe. So your entire European and North American teams can literally learn in the same class with a world-class expert, like a Mark, or like a Kevin Dorsey, or like Greg Holmes from Zoom. And you're learning from these incredible people. Class finishes, teams can come back together, talk about this incredible best practice they've just learned, and then immediately put it into practice. And that's where we're seeing these incredible, kind of almost instant impact on performance at real scale. >> So, Mark, in thinking about your investment, you must've been thinking about, okay, how do we scale this thing? You've got an instructor component, you've got this live piece. How are you thinking about that at scale? >> Yeah, there's a lot of different business model options there. And I actually think multiple of them are achievable in the longer term. That's something we've been working with Paul quite a bit, is like, they're all quite compelling. So just trying to think about which two to start with. But I think you've seen a lot of this in education models today. Is a mixture of on-demand with prerecorded. And so I think that will be the starting point. And I think from a scalability standpoint, we were also, we don't always try to do this with our investments, but clearly our LP base or limited partner base was going to be a key ingredient to at least the first cycle of this business. You know, our VC firm's backed by over 250 CRO CMOs heads of customer success, all of which are prospective instructors, prospective content developers, and prospective customers. So that was a little nicety around the scale and investment thesis for this one. >> And what's in it for them? I mean, they get paid. Obviously, you have a stake in the game, but what's in it for the instructors. They get paid on a sort of a per course basis? How does that model work? >> Yeah, we have a development fee for each kind of hour of teaching that gets created So we've mapped out a pretty significant curriculum. And we have about 250 hours of life teaching now already written. We actually think it's going to be about 3000 hours of learning before you get even close to a complete curriculum for every aspect of a revenue organization from revenue operations, to customer success, to marketing, to sales, to leadership, and management. But we have a development fee per class, and we have a teaching fee as well. >> Yeah, so, I mean, I think you guys, it's really an underserved market, and then when you think about it, most organizations, they just don't invest in training. And so, I mean, I would think you'd want to take it, I don't know what the right number is, 5, 10% of your sales budget and actually put it on this and the return would be enormous. How do you guys think about the market size? Like I said before, is it E-learning, is it part of the CRM stack? How do you size this market? >> Well, I think for us it's service to people. A highly skilled sales rep with an email address, a phone and a spreadsheet would do really well, okay? You don't need this world-class tech stack to do well in sales. You need the skills to be able to do the job. But the reverse, that's not true, right? An unskilled person with a world-class tech stack won't do well. And so fundamentally, the skill level of your team is the number one most important thing to get right to be successful in revenue. But as I said before, the product market for it to solve that problem, has been pretty terrible. So we see ourselves 100%. And so if you're looking at like a com, you look at Gong, who we've just signed as a customer, which is fantastic. Gong has a technology that helps salespeople do better through call recording. You have Outreach, who is also a customer. They have technologies that help SDRs be more efficient in outreach. And now you have Sales Impact Academy, and we help with skills development of your team, of the entirety of your revenue function. So we absolutely see ourselves as a key part of that stack. In terms of the TAM, 60 million people in sales are on, according to LinkedIn. You're probably talking 150 million people in go to market to include all of the different roles. 50% of the world's companies are B2B. The TAM is huge. But what blows my mind, and this kind of goes back to this why the global education system has overlooked this because essentially if half the world's companies are B2B, that's probably a proxy for the half of the world's GDP, Half of the world's economic growth is relying on the revenue function of half the world's companies, and they don't really know what they're doing, (laughs) which is absolutely staggering. And if we can solve that in a meaningfully meaningful way at massive scale, then the impact should be absolutely enormous. >> So, Mark, no lack of TAM. I know that you guys at Stage 2, you're also very much focused on the metrics. You have a fundamental philosophy that your product market fit and retention should come before hyper growth. So what were the metrics that enticed you to make this investment? >> Yeah, it's a good question, Dave, 'cause that's where we always look first, which I think is a little different than most early stage investors. There's a big, I guess, meme, triple, triple, double, double that's popular in Silicon Valley these days, which refers to triple your revenue in year one, triple your revenue in year two, double in year three, and four, and five. And that type of a hyper growth is critical, but it's often jumped too quickly in our opinion. That there's a premature victory called on product market fit, which kills a larger percentage of businesses than is necessary. And so with all our investments, we look very heavily first at user engagement, any early indicators of user retention. And the numbers were just off the charts for SIA in terms of the customers, in terms of the NPS scores that they were getting on their sessions, in terms of the completion rate on their courses, in terms of the customers that started with a couple of seats and expanded to more seats once they got a taste of the program. So that's where we look first as a strong foundation to build a scalable business, and it was off the charts positive for SIA. >> So how about the competition? If I Google sales training software, I'll get like dozens of companies. Lessonly, and MindTickle, or Brainshark will come up, that's not really a fit. So how do you think about the competition? How are you different? >> Yeah, well, one thing we try and avoid is any reference to sales training, 'cause that really sort of speaks to this very old kind of fashioned way of doing this. And I actually think that from a pure pedagogy perspective, so from a pure learning design perspective, the old fashioned way of doing sales training was pull a whole team off site, usually in a really terrible hotel with no windows for a day or two. And that's it, that's your learning experience. And that's not how human beings learn, right? So just even if the content was fantastic, the learning experience was so terrible, it was just very kind of ineffective. So we sort of avoid kind of like sales training, The likes of MindTickle, we're actually talking to them at the moment about a partnership there. They're a platform play, and we're certainly building a platform, but we're very much about the live instruction and creating the biggest curriculum and the broadest curriculum on the internet, in the world, basically, for revenue teams. So the competition is kind of interesting 'cause there is not really a direct subscription-based live like learning offering out there. There's some similar ish companies. I honestly think at the moment it's kind of status quo. We're genuinely creating a new category of in-work learning for revenue teams. And so we're in this kind of semi and sort of evangelical sort of phase. So really, status quo is one of the biggest sort of competitors. But if you think about some of those old, old fashioned sort of Miller Heimans, and then perhaps even like Sandlers, there's an analogy perhaps here, which is kind of interesting, which is a little bit like Siebel and Salesforce in the sort of late '90s, where in Siebel you have this kind of old way of doing things. It was a little bit ineffective. It was really expensive. Not accessible to a huge space of the market. And Salesforce came along and said, "Hey, we're going to create this cool thing. It's going to be through the browser, it's going to be accessible to everyone, and it's going to be really, really effective." And so there's some really kind of interesting parallels almost between like Siebel and Salesforce and what we're doing to completely kind of upend the sort of the old fashioned way of delivering sort of sales training, if you like. >> And your target customer profile is, you're selling to teams, right? B2B teams, right? It's not for individuals. Is that correct, Paul? >> Currently. Yeah, yeah. So currently we've got a big foothold in series A to series B. So broadly speaking out, our target market currently is really fast growth technology companies. That's the sector that we're really focusing on. We've got a very good strong foothold in series A series B companies. We've now won some much larger later stage companies. We've actually even won a couple of corporates, I can't say names yet, but names that are very, very, very familiar and we're incredibly excited by them, which could end up being thousand plus seat deals 'cause we do this on a per seat basis. But yeah, very much at the moment it's fast growth tech companies, and we're sort of moving up the chain towards enterprise. >> And how do you deal with the sort of maturity curve, if you will, of your students? You've got some that are brand new, just fresh out of school. You've got others that are more seasoned. What do you do, pop them into different points of the curriculum? How do you handle it? >> Yeah we have, I'll say we have about 30 courses right now. We have about another 15 in development where post this fundraise, we want to be able to get to around about 20 courses that we're developing every quarter and getting out to market. So we're literally, we've sort of identified about 20 to 25 key roles across everything within revenue. That's, let's say revenue ops, customer success, account management, sales, engineering, all these different kinds of roles. And we are literally plotting the sort of skills development for these individuals over multiple, multiple years. And I think what we've never ceases to amaze me is actually the breadth of learning in revenue is absolutely enormous. And what kind of just makes you laugh is, this is all of this knowledge that we're now creating it's what companies just hope that their teams somehow acquire through osmosis, through blogs, through events. And it's just kind of crazy that there is... It's absolutely insane that we don't already exist, basically. >> And if I understand it correctly, just from looking at your website, you've got the entry level package. I think it's up to 15 seats, and then you scale up from there, correct? Is it sort of as a seat-based license model? >> Yeah, it's a seat-based model, as Mark mentioned. In some cases we sell, let's say 20 or $30,000 deal out the gate and that's most of the team. That will be maybe a series A, series B deal, but then we've got these land and expand models that are working tremendously well. We have seven, eight customers in Q1 that have doubled their spend Q2. That's the impact that they're seeing. And our net revenue retention number for Q2 is looking like it's going to be 177% to think exceeds companies like Snowflakes. Well, our underlying retention metrics, because people are seeing this incredible impact on teams and performance, is really, really strong. >> That's a nice metric compare with Snowflake (Paul laughs) It's all right. (Dave and Paul laugh) >> So, Mark, this is a larger investment for Stage 2 You guys have been growing and sort of upping your game. And maybe talk about that a little bit. >> Yeah, we're in the middle of Fund II right now. So, Fund I was in 2018. We were doing smaller checks. It was our first time out of the gate. The mission has really taken of, our LP base has really taken off. And so this deal looks a lot like more like our second fund. We'll actually make an announcement in a few weeks now that we've closed that out. But it's a much larger fund and our first investments should be in that 2 to $3 million range. >> Hey, Paul, what are you going to do with the money? What are the use of funds? >> Put it on black, (chuckles) we're going to like- (Dave laughs) >> Saratoga is open. (laughs) (Mark laughs) >> We're going to, look, the curriculum development for us is absolutely everything, but we're also going to be investing in building our own technology platform as well. And there are some other really important aspects to the kind of overall offering. We're looking at building an assessment tool so we can actually kind of like start to assess skills across teams. We certify every course has an exam, so we want to get more robust around the certification as well, because we're hoping that our certification becomes the global standard in understanding for the first time in the industry what individual competencies and skills people have, which will be huge. So we have a broad range of things that we want to start initiating now. But I just wanted to quickly say Stage 2 has been nothing short of incredible in every kind of which way. Of course, this investment, the fit is kind of insane, but the LPs have been extraordinary in helping. We've got a huge number of them are now customers very quickly. Mark and the team are helping enormously on our own kind of like go to market and metrics. I've been doing this for 20 years. I've raised over 100 million myself in venture capital. I've never known a venture capital firm with such value add like ever, or even heard of other people getting the kind of value add that we're getting. So I just wanted to a quick shout out for Stage 2. >> Quite a testimony of you guys. Definitely Stage 2 punches above its weight. Guys, we'll leave it there. Thanks so much for coming on. Good luck and we'll be watching. Appreciate your time. >> Thanks, Dave. >> Thank you very much. >> All right, thank you everybody for watching this Cube conversation. This is Dave Vellante, and we'll see you next time.