>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering Dell Technologies World 2019 brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas. Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman. We are on day one of theCUBE's coverage of Dell Technologies World 2019. We've got two sets, lots of great guests, lots of great conversations already. We're pleased to welcome to theCUBE for the first time Mike Apigian, Senior Director of Education Services at Dell Technologies. Mike, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> Our pleasure. So here we are talking about digital transformation. We've been talking about it for a long time. >> Yes. >> I love how last year's Dell Technologies World was make it real, it being digital transformation, IT, work force transformation, security. This year it's about real transformation. We talked a lot about the technologies. What are some of the other things though that companies need to be thinking about as enablers of this transformation? >> Sure, great question and obviously the technology is a huge part of it, right? But of course, myself being from Dell Technologies Education Services, a big focus on the people. So that is what we see as an additional critical focus because at the end of the day, digital transformation is big. It's really big and technology alone isn't going to suffice, right? It's not going to be just that. So focus on the people and you know we hear it time and again from our customers, from research in the market that you know, one of the top three actually barriers from customers and organizations driving adoption and that success in digital transformation comes down to having the right skillsets in place. >> Yeah so Mike, I'm glad we have you on. We just had your Chief Customer Officer Karen Quintos on. >> Yeah. >> And she was talking a little bit about the skills gap. So we know how many people we're going to need to have and you know, half of the programs we're going to need is going to require them retraining of you know, my work force there, so. >> Absolutely. >> We've talked to years with what used to be EMC and is now Dell Education Services. >> Sure. >> From storage certification to converge certification to cloud certification. So what's the latest and greatest? What is the kind of go-to skillset that people need and the ones that people are calling up and saying oh my gosh, if I could learn this, it's going to really catapult my career? >> Yeah so the Dell Technologies now, Dell Technologies proven professional program has been in place for years. A lot of industry-recognized certifications to your point, a lot focused on storage, data protection, product-related and over the past 12 months to 18 months, we've actually got a lot of expansion beyond that into more areas of transformation and those areas where we've expanded beyond just products have been tied back right to that skills gap that we're seeing in customers and what they're challenged with that they drive digital transformation. So some examples being more of a focus on converged infrastructure, hybrid cloud. We have some associate level certifications we recently brought to market there. Multicloud, that's a big focus for us. Obviously some of the discussion and announcements this morning focused around multicloud and they talked about cloud chaos, right? So we have some expert level certification in place focused on that. We also have a focus around security and specifically designing infrastructure with that security-first mindset and then finally the other most recent transformational type of certification is a master level. So think of a career pinnacle level certification that's focused on transformational architecture. >> Yeah Mike, just to follow up on that, one of the things I hear in multicloud is there's certain technologies that might allow us to move, but one of the biggest challenges is skillset because if I learn and I understand how to configure it and how to manage it and how to do it here and if I move somewhere else, even if it's 70% the same, oh my god, that's not awesome. Can you just, I wonder if you can step back and give us you know, what you see out there and what works today and where do we need to go as an industry as a whole to try to help users to live in this multicloud world that we're already in but struggling with? >> Yeah I mean there's a ton of proficiency in the silos, right, in managing specific infrastructure service storage network now also around converged infrastructure as well as cloud deployments, but to your point, in a multicloud environment, there are different providers, both private and public, different technologies, and it can get complex fairly quick, right? So having the skillsets to kind of take a step back and look at that holistically and understand about workload placements, you know, there's knowledge and skillsets that require to make some of those determinations. We obviously have a lot of services capabilities that help provide that, but there's a level of obviously proficiency that our customers want and need in house as well. So a lot of it is building that knowledge and understanding the decision points and the criteria for the different providers as well as workload placement and movement across that multicloud environment. >> Essentially-- >> Very different than skill sets in the past. >> Sorry about that, very excited. I'm curious about if we talk about talent and retention with respect to some of the guys and gals who've been around for a while, Michael mentioned on stage this morning that later this week is Dell's 35th anniversary in business and as we look at all the technology transformations and multicloud world that we live and Stu mentioned, what are some of the benefits for, I don't want to say an older population, but say the veterans of technology? Why, what are some of the things that Dell Technologies Education Services will deliver to say the more seasoned individual to stay relevant and be able to adapt as quickly as technology is so that they're competitive for jobs themselves? >> Yeah, yeah, great, great question and I mean it's the pace of change is so fast and it's impacting everyone, everyone from recent college graduates, right, getting right into the field that we're in in technology as well as to your point, seasoned veterans who've been around for a while and that's where a lot of the difficult transformation is taking place, right? 'cause it's the roles of the past and today, the skillsets of today, like those roles and skills that have gotten us to today are very different than what's needed to get us to tomorrow and that's where a lot of our technical training, our curricula as well as our industry certifications come into play and helping build that knowledge, the required and the skills and the certifications to validate those capabilities for the next generation workforce. So it's really for the right out of school and maybe new to the field as well as evolving throughout their career. >> All right so Mike, we know that your team's doing things throughout the year, talking to your customers, but you've got 15,000 people here at Dell Tech World. I've seen the hands-on lab, I know there's always certification. So give us from your team, you know, some of the big focus, some of the activities and some of the takeaways that you want people to have from your team. >> You know, the one big thing that I would give a plug for is our proved and professional center. So right downstairs in Casanova 501, we have 57 certifications available and we have hundreds and hundreds of customers and partners that will be taking certification exams and then achieving certification this week, all right? We have a promotional offer. So every attempt at, first attempt at every exam is free just for this week so I encourage everyone who's here to check it out. In addition to taking those certifications in preparation for that, we have 29 different preparation sessions that we're running. So right downstairs, two rooms next door where we're rotating through on topics that are specific to our latest and greatest product lines, PowerMax, PowerEdge MX, in addition to that cloud-focused data science certification prep sessions, multi-cloud expert. There's a whole array of prep sessions that are helping our customers and partners prepare for taking those certifications. >> AI machine learning? >> There are some intersections with that as well, certainly, as part of our data science curriculum and certification exams. >> And where are customers in terms of discussing with you, say maybe at last year's Dell technologies World, like these are some of the certifications and the trainings that we really need. Talk about that sort of bi-directional symbiosis where customers are, I'm assuming, help you the teams identify, develop and then deliver this spot-on training. >> Yeah that's a great question. So actually every year here at Dell Technologies World, we have a customer advisory council and that should last two years, came out loud and clear last year was more of a focus in some of the areas that they're challenged with from a transformation perspective. Security came into play in a big way, different aspects of cloud and multicloud, enterprise architecture, a lot of our focus related to Pivotal and a lot of the offerings there, application development. So all of that feedback and discussion that we have into customers actually feeds into our prioritization and road mapping and it has a big impact on the technical training and the certifications that we bring to market. So we're going to be our customers throughout today, also tomorrow and that'll be additional input to where we go in the future. >> All right, Mike, what other feedback are you hearing from customers? We hear in the keynotes some of these broad topics and you talk about AI and IoT and edge computing and how much of that funnel back and are they looking for help on that now or you know, how do they start getting themselves ready for some of these massive waves that are coming? >> Yeah that's definitely part of the themes that we hear and the feedback that we get from customers and what's really relevant to them and that ties into their skills transformation as well. As you said, IoT, AIML, data engineer. That's a more recent role that we're focusing on and you'll see a bunch coming out from Dell Technologies Ed Services on that in the not too distant future so a lot of that. Those themes are, we hear the exact same, same customer base and those are areas that we're addressing in our roadmap and as we bring new technical training offerings to market. >> So listening to your customers is key. As Stu mentioned, we were talking to Karen Quintos a little bit earlier that that's essential for pretty much any role, but you're listening, you're taking that into account, you're designing it and delivering for that. A lot of benefits we can talk about for the individuals going through the training, right, in terms of upscaling and job retention, but from your customers' perspective, do you have a favorite example of a customer who's really been able to transform their company because they've made this investment and ensuring that their talent has the latest and greatest education? >> Yeah, and actually, we've seen, we've done a bunch of research in market and what we see time and again is a really really strong correlation between those organizations that are focusing on and investing in their people and the skills development, a correlation between that and the progress and success that they're having with their transformation initiatives, right, and one area where we've been engaging a lot deeper with customers as of just recent and beginning to do a lot more of is we call it an organizational learning program. So we obviously offer technical training and certifications, but this is more of a consultative engagement with our customers more at the organization level and very consultative and we work closely with them to understand their digital strategy, their plans, and as part of that, drive a very prescriptive assessment of what's going on in their environment from a people and skills perspective. So really understanding their current state and where they want to go, where they need to be, and based upon the findings of that assessment, we work closely with them to develop a defined documented strategy and plan. In this case, it's a learning plan. It's a continuous learning plan for that organization over a series of quarters to work against and drive and really capture, gain those skills and knowledge that's required to help move them forward. >> Yeah, Mike, I love that. It reminds me of the joke in your space is what if we give them new skills and they leave? And of course the alternative is what if we don't give them new skills and they stay? >> Exactly. >> So last thing I wanted to ask is talk a little bit about internal. There's a lot of change going on. You've been from the EMC to Dell for quite a few years. >> Oh yes. >> I won't say how many just to protect the innocent, but one of the things, I mean I spent 10 years at EMC and the training was something that helped me a lot in my career. Talk a little bit about, you know, what's changed and how you help the internal teams and all the different groups stay up on the latest and greatest areas. >> Absolutely so in Education Services to your point, we support our employees, technical employees, around the globe, our partners and customers. So huge focus on enabling those employees and if you think about it, right, they are, they're the front lines, they're the folks that are with our customers and they need to be as up to speed, if not more up to speed in these areas of technology. So we have a massive undertaking to enable our services audiences, pre-sale systems engineers, our consultants around the globe to ensure that they are up to speed and quite knowledgeable on the latest and greatest technologies and really how those come to life within our customer environments. >> It seems like maybe Education Services is a catalyst for this internal cultural transformation that we're seeing from Dell Technologies. >> It absolutely is. There's transformation everywhere. It's internal, it's external and at the end of the day, kind of back to where we started, right? It comes down to the people. It's our customers and us as a company, our most important asset and at the end of the day, you know, the people need the right skills to be successful and to go digital. >> Great stuff, Mike. Thank you so much for joining Stu and me on theCUBE this afternoon and sharing all that you're doing to help transform Dell Education Services for your internal folks and your customers alike. We appreciate your time. >> Thanks for having me. >> Our pleasure. For Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching us live from Las Vegas. Day one of theCUBE's coverage of Dell Technologies World 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE! Now, here's your host, Stu Miniman. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and welcome to a special presentation of theCUBE here in our Boston area studio. Happy to welcome to the program Mike Apigian. Mike's senior director of education services at Dell EMC. Mike, great to talk to you. >> Thanks, Stu, thanks for having me. >> Talk about careers, you talk about jobs. When you're talking to partners and end users, what are some of the biggest concerns they have, especially, you know, how do things like skillsets and training fit into it? >> Yeah, sure. I mean, it's twofold, really. Part of it's the technology and how the technology industry's changing so fast, and, to your point, needing to keep up with that, which is blistering. That's definitely a big challenge we look to address. And then the other part of it is just time, time in the day, and the ability to get out of work to train. That's actually driven a big shift in the industry to different ways of learning, different types of learning experiences that don't require someone to be in a physical classroom all the time. >> I have to imagine that that's the case. Tell us, what's the state of certification these days? You know, there's always debates in the industry. It's like, "Ah, have I just had the same certification "for the last 20 years, "and I just kind of go through the rote?" Or, "What am I learning on the job, "how are my certifications changing?" You mentioned remote versus there. What's the industry look like these days? >> There is a big focus, as there always has been, around certifications on specific technologies, vendors products, and obviously at Dell EMC, we have a big focus, there. We have portfolio certifications to meet that need. But what we see in the market and hear loud and clear from our customers is that, with all the change going on and the change driving, IT professionals need to be skilled, knowledge, proficient in much more than specific products and technologies. It's really the connection across multiple demands. Infrastructure, applications, and security, which is really the interesting part of it and opportunity for us. >> What is the focus and why does the Dell family of companies have a right to kind of be a major partner for users in doing the certifications and the education? >> We feel there's no one in a better position to really help build that knowledge and validate those skillsets based upon, first and foremost, Dell EMC's breadth of infrastructure and the capabilities there, and with certifications really broadening across that infrastructure, looking at it more holistically. And then, when you think about the family of Dell technologies and bring in VMware, Virtustream, and Pivotal, and RSA, very much adjacent technologies and broader solutions that really tie into what we envision and what we see and hear from our customers as defining and requiring the skillsets of the future. >> Give us the landscape of what the certifications look like today. You've got some news that you're going to tell us about, you know, what's new today, also. >> Yeah, yeah. I mean, the current state today is, as I mentioned, very product-centric. Maybe a combination of products, and moving forward, now, we're excited to have more transformational certifications which span those different domains. For example, as organizations begin or continue to modernize their data centers, implement integrated systems, converged systems, it requires a different skillset to manage and support that infrastructure that's now being deployed and leveraged in a different way, just as one example. >> You know, you said "Across multiple domains," but bring us inside a little bit as to what's involved here. >> Certainly. There's definitely a simplicity aspect to it, absolutely. Contrasted to deep expertise in server storage network, but that dynamic with the converged and hyperconverged infrastructure is actually administrator that it may not need to have as much depth in any of those areas, but they need to have breadth across all of them. Also, skillsets, knowledge and experience around different cloud and operating models to really round out the skillsets required there. >> Okay. Who are these certifications targeted at? What kind of stage in their careers, what kind of path is there? Help us understand a little bit the journeys that people are on with their jobs and careers, on certifications. >> The new certifications that we have really spans quite a range. We have associate-level certifications. Think of that as very foundational in concepts, which aren't even anchored specifically on Dell EMC products, but more concepts around converged infrastructure, cloud, hybrid cloud environments and concepts. For something like that at that associate level, it could be a technical person, a technical professional. It could be a business professional. It could be someone coming out of a university, or even while they're in the university that's focused on building some knowledge and some skillset to enter the IT industry. For that, there's a pretty broad spectrum. And then, as you go up the levels or tiers within our certification program, as you'd expect, more advanced. Higher levels of knowledge. As you get up to the highest tiers in the program, it's really not just grounded on knowledge, but actually real-world experience. In some cases, the experience required may be five years of the right experience, or in some cases, with our new enterprise architect certification, it's at minimum 15 years of experience. >> How do you balance that, and how does that fit in IT with business and those various skillsets? >> Great question, 'cause you're right on about the technologies. There's the role itself in that example, architecting enterprise-wide solutions where there's extent in many years of experience required. But when it comes down to a technology perspective, obviously the shelf-life on many of those is not quite that long. It is a balance, there. What I'd also say is that what these certifications help validate and what we see required in the market today is not just that technical focus, but very much so the business focus, the business acumen, and the ability to engage with the business, understand business requirements, the corporate strategy, if you will, where they're going, and really translate or convert that into enterprise architecture. An enterprise architecture that's very different than the past, that more sets the stage for an organization to be successful moving forward. >> If I hear you right, it's really a pairing of the technology and the business and making sure that there's good partnership there. >> Mike: Absolutely. >> You mentioned skillset in the market. What are some of the big gaps? You know, what are customers coming and saying, "Hey, I've got people with skills, "but I need to retrain them." Where's the place where you see the biggest opportunity today that some of these new certifications are helping? >> A couple that come top to mind, first one is security. A hot topic everywhere. A critical step in that, in implementing security, is making sure the infrastructure is secure. We hear that over and over again, and what we see is that a very product-oriented approach in IT to securing products or parts of the infrastructure. One of the new certifications we're excited to have brought to market is infrastructure security, and it's looking across the spectrum, across all Dell EMC infrastructure, as well as connections to VMware and other vendors. It's really focused on taking a security-first approach and implementing the right security controls in the infrastructure to meet an organization's security policy and requirements. >> Security, you know, super hot. What else from the announcement do you want to make sure people understand, some of the new pieces that are helping on these transformations? >> You know, I think another area that is definitely worth a shout-out is the deployment of multi-cloud environments. Dell EMC infrastructure, private cloud, connectivity, and integration with different public cloud providers. That's what our large customers around the globe are doing. >> That's one of the biggest problems we've seen is the operating environment for that multi-cloud world is challenging for customers. There is no single pane of glass, and if I'm a Dell customer working with like, Azure in Azure Stack, I've got one thing if I'm a VMware customer, and I'm looking at VM with Amazon, that can be very different, and customers are stuck in the middle. How do you, from an education standpoint, live in that multi-cloud world? What do you do, where do you say, "Oh, hey, I've got an associate program here, "but you might want to take the AWS associate program here," and terminology and, you know, multi-cloud environments. >> The certification is, it's called the multi-cloud administrator expert certification. There's a path to get there. There's actually multiple paths to get there, and it really focuses and anchors around Dell EMC infrastructure and VMware vRealize Suite and the automation capabilities there. Now, the certification isn't just validating the knowledge. It's actually also the real world of experience of managing that environment, and it extends to public clouds. As part of that certification, it's validating that individuals have the experience and have actually working environments where they're actually integrating into those different public cloud providers. That could be, of course, both Dell EMC and Vmware cloud partner providers, but also into other popular cloud providers like Virtustream, Microsoft Azure, AWS, and so on. We're not certifying them on those third-party cloud providers, but our certification validates an individual's experience and their proficiency working with those environments. It's part of a larger solution. >> Mike, your background from the EMC side, maybe speak to a little bit the portfolio you mentioned. Virtustream, Vmware, of course, has very rigorous types of certifications there. How do those play across the various solutions? >> Yeah, there's a lot of great synergies there. As I mentioned, our certification validate into some of those areas, but an additional opportunity for the individuals who are looking to get certified, for example, it's called co-badging. For individuals who have a specific Dell EMC certification, like that multi-cloud expert, as well as a, in this case, a VMware certification, their VCP, not only do they get to proudly wear those two badges, but there's a third co-badge which really distinguishes that person as having a broader set of experience across that even bigger solution. >> Last thing I want to touch on, Mike, is, you know, plan it for the future. Talk to a little bit about the rollout of some of these new certifications, and how does this prep customers not just for the needs of today, but where they need to go in their career for the next five years. >> Yeah, sure. What we're validating in these certifications is absolutely relevant to a lot of our customers that we see that are transforming at a rapid pace. But what I'd like to say is that, you know, transformation's a journey. The masses of organizations are in motion. They're obviously at all different stages, but really, what we're focused on validating is the future skills needed. We see a big, a lot of pent-up demand, actually, for that today. What we, for example, our master-level certification, to your question about what's next, where it's going, that is a extremely rigorous certification, not one that you, that is achieved via an online-proctored exam. It's actually conducted by a board review. Candidates submit applications, and depending upon the application, it's accepted or not. Those that are accepted actually will have the opportunity to present in front of a board. It's something that we'll run quarterly. Our first one at Dell Technologies World, just coming up in a couple months. We'll run them quarterly after that, and for those who passed the board review and have the extensive amount of experience and meet the requirements achieve that master-level enterprise architect certification, in that case. >> Great, well, we're looking forward to being, we're going to have theCUBE at Dell Technologies World. It's actually the first event we ever did was EMC World back in 2010, so it'll be, I can't believe, our ninth year doing theCUBE there. Lots of coverage. Mike, I just want to give you the final word. We were talking offline a bit. We've got friends in the industry, lots of things have changed. Purse level, what do you give people that have been in tech for a while? What advice do you give them? >> I'd say, like any role, even outside of tech, but I think mostly in tech, is keeping up with the pace of things. That right there is a full-time job, as you know and as our customers know. Coming from the learning industry and education services, it's a passion of mine and something I get really, really excited about. >> Mike Apigian, thank you so much for joining us. Congratulations on the update, we look forward to hearing the results from the board reviews at Dell Technologies World and beyond, and be sure to check out thecube.net for coverage of Dell Technologies World. Lots of other shows in 2018 and beyond. I'm Stu Miniman. Thank you so much for watching theCUBE. (fast electronic music)

>> Narrator: From the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's the Cube. Now, here's your host, Stu Miniman. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to a special presentation of the Cube here in our Boston area studio. Happy to welcome to the program, Mike Apigian. Mike's senior director of education services at Dell EMC. Mike, great to talk to you. >> Thanks, Stu, thanks for having me. >> Alright, so, actually a topic I love talking about. We're talking about jobs, talking about careers, and what is the role of kind of the vendor and their whole ecosystem there. But before we get into it, give our audience, since it's your first time on the program, a little bit about your background and what you do at Dell EMC. >> Yeah, sure, well actually I've been a long time EMC employee, started out almost 20 years ago and over my career been, I had the opportunity to really focus on a number of different products in technologies and then a couple years back had the opportunity to join our education services team. And been pretty exciting since then, focused on the also very changing industry of learning. >> Yeah, something that there's definitely, nobody asked a question whether or not there's change going on in the industry. One of the big things I've asked over the last year is how do you keep up with it all? And the answer is there's no way you can keep up with it all but talk about careers, you talk about jobs, when you're talking to partners and end users, what are some of the biggest concerns they have and especially how do things like skillsets and training fit into it? >> Yeah, sure, I mean, it's two fold really. It's part of it's the technology and how the technology industry's changing so fast and to your point, needing to keep up with that, which is blistering. So that's definitely a big challenge we look to address. And then the other part of it is just time, time in the day and the ability to get out of work to train and that's actually driven a big shift in the industry to different ways of learning, different types of learning experiences that don't require someone to be in a physical classroom all the time. >> Yeah, I have to imagine that that's the case. Tell us, what's the state of certification these days? You know, there's always debates in the industry, it's like ah, have I just had the same certification for the last 20 years and I just kind of go through the rote or what am I learning on the job? How are my certifications changing? You mention kind of remote versus there. What's the industry look like these days? >> Yeah, there is a big focus, as there always has been, around certifications on specific technologies and vendor's products and obviously at Dell EMC, we have a big focus there. We have a portfolio of certifications to meet that need but what we see in the market and hear loud and clear from our customers is that with all the change going on and the change driving, IT professionals need to be skilled, knowledgeable, proficient in much more than specific products and technologies. It's really the connection across multiple domains, infrastructure, applications, and security. Which is really the interesting part of it and opportunity for us. >> Yeah, Mike, I want to get your viewpoint on this. You've been with the company for over 20 years. 20 years ago, EMC was a storage company, 100% the focus of the company. Now, what does the certifications, the education services, what is the focus and why does the Dell family of companies have a right to kind of be a major partner for users in doing those certifications in the education? >> We feel there's no one in a better position to really help build that knowledge and validate those skillsets based upon first and foremost, Dell EMC's breadth of infrastructure and the capabilities there and with certifications really broadening across that infrastructure, looking at it more holistically. And then, when you think about the family of Dell Technologies and bring in VMware and Virtustream and Pivotal and RSA, very much adjacent technologies and broader solutions that really tie into what we envision and what we see and hear from our customers as defining and requiring the skillsets of the future. >> Okay, so, don't want to disregard storage skillsets, still critically important? >> Mike: Sure, absolutely. >> The thing we've talked about when virtualization rolled out, when cloud rolls out, somebody needs to understand how stuff works underneath there but what are, give us a landscape of what the certifications look like today and you've got some news that you're going to tell us about what's new today also. >> Yeah, I mean, the state of current state today is as I mentioned, very product centric, maybe a combination of products and moving forward now we're excited to have more transformational certifications which span those different domains. So for example, as organizations begin to or continue to modernize their data centers, implement integrated systems, convert systems, it requires a different skillset to manage and support that infrastructure that's now being deployed and leveraged in a different way, just as one example. >> Yeah, so, one of the values of converged and hyper-converged infrastructure is simplicity so the certification's shorter? Tell us what is involved in, you said across multiple domains, but bring us inside a little bit as to what's involved here. >> Certainly, so there's definitely a simplicity aspect to it, absolutely. Contrasted to deep expertise and server storage network, that dynamic with the converged and hyper-converged infrastructure is actually administrator that may not need to have as much depth in any of those areas but they need to have breadth across all of them, right? Also, skillsets, knowledge, and experience around different cloud and operating models to really round out the skillsets required there. >> Okay, who are these certifications targeted at? What kind of stage in their careers? What kind of path is there? Help us understand a little bit the journeys that people are on with their jobs and careers and certifications. >> Sure, so the new certifications that we have, it really spans quite a range. We have associate level certifications, think of that as very foundational in concepts. Which aren't even anchored specifically on Dell EMC products but more concepts around converged infrastructure, cloud, hyper-cloud environments and concepts. For something like that at that associate level, it could be a technical person, a technical profession, it could be a business professional, it could be someone coming out of a university or even while they're in the university that's focused in building some knowledge and some skillset to enter the IT industry. So for that, there's a pretty broad spectrum and then as you go up the levels or tiers within our certification program, as you'd expect, more advanced, higher levels of knowledge and as you get up to the highest tiers in the program, it's really not just grounded on knowledge but actually real world experience. And in some cases, the experience required may be five years of the right experience or in some cases with our new Enterprise Architect Certification, it's at minimum 15 years of experience. >> Yeah, how do you balance, the jokes always like okay, I'd like somebody with 20 years of virtualization experience and only the mainframe people can stand up. Or it's I'd like 15 years of container experience and once again, there's probably two people that were working on Solaris 15 years ago for that but it wasn't in Linux until less than that. How do you balance that and how does that fit in kind of IT with business and those various skillsets? >> Great question, because you're right on about the technologies. There's the role itself in that example, architecting enterprise-wide solutions, where there's extent and many years of experience required but when it comes down to a technology perspective, obviously the shelf life on many of those is not quite that long. So it is a balance there. What I'd also say is that what these certifications help validate and what we see required in the market today is not just that technical focus but very much so the business focus, the business acumen and the ability to engage with the business, understand business requirements, the corporate strategy, if you will, where they're going. And really translate or convert that into enterprise architecture and enterprise architecture that's very different than the past that more sets the stage for an organization to be successful moving forward. >> Yeah, so, if I hear you right, it's really a pairing of the technology and the business and making sure that there's good partnership there. >> Mike: Absolutely. >> Okay, you mentioned kind of skillset in the market, what are some of the big gaps? What are customers coming and saying, "Hey, I've got people with skills "but I need to retrain them." Where's the place where you see the biggest opportunity today that some of these new certifications are helping? >> A couple that come top to mind, first one is security, a hot topic everywhere. And a critical step in that, in implementing security, is making sure the infrastructure's secure. We hear that over and over again. And what we see is that a very product oriented approach in IT to securing products or parts of the infrastructure so one of the new certifications where we're excited to have brought to market is infrastructure security. And it's looking across the spectrum, across all Dell EMC infrastructure, as well as connections to VMware and other vendors and it's really focused on taking a security first approach and implementing the right security controls in the infrastructure to meet an organization's security policy and requirements. >> Something we've heard loud and clear for the last couple of years, security is not one person's job, it's everyone's job. And it is no longer kind of the firewall and perimeter, it now needs to be pervasive and it goes all the way up to the board of directors inside the company. So it sounds like you're pulling together pieces from across the Dell family of companies there to help it. >> Correct. >> Okay, so security, you know, super hot. What else from the announcement do you want to make sure people understand? Some of the new pieces that are helping on these transformations? >> You know, I think another area that is definitely worth a shout out is the deployment of multi-cloud environments. And Dell EMC infrastructure, private cloud, connectivity and integration with different public cloud providers. That's what our large customers around the globe are doing. And if you think about that, the high degree of automation, and connectivity to those different cloud providers, the skillset that is required is very different than the past. Knowledge of workloads, moving, migrating workloads, it's definitely a big gap that we now address. >> And Mike, that's one of the biggest problems we've seen is the operating environment for that multi-cloud world is challenging for customers. There is no single pane of glass and if I'm a Dell customer working with like Azure and Azure Stack, I've got one thing. If I'm then a VMware customer and I'm looking at VM with Amazon, that can be very different. And customers are stuck in the middle. How do you, from an education standpoint, live in that multi-cloud world? What do you do, where do you say, "Oh hey, I've got an associate program here "but you might want to take the AWS associate program here," and terminology and multi-cloud environments? >> Yeah, so the certification is, it's called the Multi-Cloud Administrator Expert Certification and there's a path to get there, there's actually multiple paths to get there and it really focuses and anchors around Dell EMC infrastructure and VMware vRealize Suite and the automation capabilities there. Now, the certification isn't just validating the knowledge, it's actually also the real world of experience of managing that environment and it extends to public clouds as part of that certification. It's validating that individuals have the experience and have actually working environments where they're actually integrating into those different public cloud providers. So that could be, of course, both Dell EMC and VMware cloud partner providers, but also into other popular cloud providers like Virtustream, Microsoft Azure, AWS, and so on. So, we're not certifying them on those third party cloud providers but our certification validates an individual's experience and their proficiency working with those environments. It's part of a larger solution. >> So, Mike, you're back ground from the EMC side, maybe speak to a little a bit the portfolio, you mentioned Virtustream, VMware of course has very rigorous types of certifications there. How do those play across the various solutions? >> Yeah, there's a lot of great synergies there. So as I mentioned, our certification validate into some of those areas but an additional opportunity for the individuals who are looking to get certified, for example it's called co-badging. So for individuals who have a specific Dell EMC certification like that Multi-Cloud Expert, as well as a, in this case, a VMware certification, their VCP, not only do they get to proudly wear those two badges but there's a third co-badge which really distinguishes that person as having a broader set of experience across that even bigger solution. >> Okay, last thing I want to touch on, Mike, is planning for the future. Talk a little bit about the roll out of some of these new certifications and how does this prep customers not just for the needs of today but where they need to go in their career for the next five years? >> Yeah, sure, so what we're validating in these certifications is absolutely relevant to a lot of our customers that we see that are transforming at a rapid pace. But what I like to say is that transformation's a journey, the masses of organizations are in motion, they're obviously at all different stages, but really what we're focused on validating is the future skills needed. And we see a big, a lot of pent up demand actually for that today. So, what we, for example, our master level certification, to your question about kind of what's next, where it's going, that is an extremely rigorous certification, not one that is achieved via an online proctored exam. It's actually conducted by a board review. So candidates submit applications, and depending upon the application, it's accepted or not, those that are accepted actually will have the opportunity to present in front of a board. And it's something that we'll run quarterly, our first one at Dell Technologies World just coming up in a couple months. And we'll run them quarterly after that and for those who pass the board review and have the extensive amount of experience and meet the requirements achieve that master level Enterprise Architect Certification in that case. >> Okay, great, well we're looking forward to being, we're going to have the Cube at Dell Technologies World. It was actually the first event we ever did, was EMC World back in 2010 so it'll be, I can't believe our ninth year doing the Cube there. Lots of coverage. Mike, I just want to give you the final word. You know, we were talking offline a bit, we've got friends in the industry, lots of things have changed, first level, what do you give people that have been in tech for a while, what advice do you give them? >> I'd say like any rule, even outside of tech but I think mostly in tech, is keeping up with the pace of things. That right there is a full time job, as you know, and as our customers know and coming from the learning industry and education services it's a passion of mine and something I get really, really excited about. >> Mike Apigian, thank you so much for joining us. Congratulations on the update, we look forward to hearing the results from the board of reviews at Dell Technologies World and beyond and be sure to check out thecube.net for coverage of Dell Technologies World. Lots of other shows in 2018 and beyond. I'm Stu Miniman, thank you so much for watching the Cube. (upbeat music)