>> Narrator: From Burlingame, California, it's the Cube, covering Sumo Logic Illuminate 2019. Brought to you by Sumo Logic. >> Hey welcome back everybody! Jeff Frick here with the Cube, we're at the Sumo Logic Illuminate conference, it's at the Hyatt San Francisco Airport. About 700, 800 people, full house in the keynote earlier today, all about operational process monitoring, all this crazy data is being kicked out of the Cloud and IoT and all these crazy next-gen applications. We're excited to have a very close friend of mine, CEO of a very hot company, Kamal Shah, the CEO of StackRox. Kamal, great to see you! >> Thank you, and great to be here, Jeff! >> Absolutely! So for folks that aren't familiar with StackRox, give us the overview. >> Sure, so in a nutshell, we do Kubernetes Security, and so as we've heard all day today, enterprises are deploying microservices, containers, Kubernetes, and we do security for your cloud data infrastructure. >> So how does security work for Kubernetes versus security for other things? >> Yeah, so the use cases for security, or the mission for the security team is the same, right? You got to harden your environment to prevent the bad guys from getting in. >> And, you have to make sure, despite your best efforts, if somebody does break in, then you catch them before they do any damage, right? But the how you do security has to evolve for the cloud data stack, right? It has to understand the containers are immutable affirm all infrastructure, you have to understand that it's not just about the container, but it's also about the orchestrator, and specifically Kubernetes, and it's also about making sure that you seamlessly integrate with dev ops processes, automation and workflow. So it requires a fundamentally different approach to security than traditional security tools. >> So you know, we talk a lot about the increasing attack area that's offered by IoT, right? And increasing attack area that's offered by all those API's and all these interconnected applications, but I've never heard anyone really talk about containers or orchestration as kind of a new attack surface. Did we just stop paying attention? Is that something you're seeing happen? >> Yeah it's something that is starting to emerge, and we've seen some high-profile breachers at a large next generation electric car company, and a large shopping site where misconfigurations led to security breaches in the Kubernetes' environment, and Kubernetes' ecosystem also did a Cube security audit, and so I think we're going to start to hear a lot more, because there's more and more applications are being deployed in production. It's creating a new attack area, and as the old saying goes, the predators go where there's food in the system. >> And so if you're not proactive about it, I think it's going to really hurt as you deploy containers in Kubernetes. >> Right, so we hear over and over and over again about breaches because people misconfigure stuff. That just seems to happen, whether it's a database or this, that, and the other. And I think we can pretty much safely assume everyone's going to get breached if they haven't got breached already, 'cause we hear about it all the time. How do you catch them fast, limit the damage and try not to have too much vulnerabilities? >> Exactly, so the use cases for what we do at Kubernetes are the same. Right? Its vulnerability management, it's configuration management, and we just did a study around the state of container in Kubernetes security and misconfigeration was the number one concern. Because the reality is that Kubernetes, there are a lot of knobs. And each knob has multiple options, so if you're not careful you can really misconfigure your environment and make it so much easier for attackers. >> Right, right. >> And it's precisely what happened at the two examples I sighted earlier. So a misconfigerations is important, runtime security is important, and also compliance. Let's not forget about compliance, right. You have to make sure that you meet your PCI, HIPAA, NIST, and CIS benchmark standards for this cloud native stock. >> So what we're seeing is that these are all becoming very, very important and as a result, it's increasing awareness as Kubernetes gets more prominent. >> Right, and then they are creating and tearing down hundreds, thousands, millions of these things at a nidicolous pace. >> I mean exactly. Kubernetes came out of Google, they open sourced it, and it's really what allows you to deploy, manage, containers at scale. Apparently, they manage hundreds of millions of container a day using Kubernetes, it's incredible. >> Jeff: Oh yeah, I saw a statistic that Google launches 4 billion containers per week. That was from a presentation, actually from a 451 analyst from like 2 years ago. So one can only imagine the scale. >> We are also seeing not quite 4 billion containers per week, but we are seeing thousands, and tens of thousands of containers at scale at companies everywhere. They are all deployed in production, and now they are waking up to security. The good news here is that they are waiting for breaches to happen before they solve the problem. There's still a lack of awareness, and what Sumo Logic has done today with the announcement around continued intelligence for Kubernetes just increases the awareness around, hey we have to solve observability, which is logs, metrics, and tracing, which is what Sumo does, and security for your cloud native infrastructures. >> Yeah, I mean the automation is so important, right? You can't do any of this stuff with this exponential growth of data, exponential growth of pushes, of new code releases. There's so many pieces in this, so automation is a huge piece of the puzzle. >> Automation is paramount and with this new infrastructure there aren't enough security people to solve this. So security has to become everybody's responsibility. And the only way we are going to solve this is to automate it. It also has to integrate with your DebOps processes and automation and work flows. If you don't, then the DebOps body is going to reject the security organ, right? So it has to be seamless in the way you deploy it. >> It's interesting you say that because we go to RSA, forty thousand people, more vendor than you can count, it bulges Moscone to the absolute edges. Everyone says over and over that security has to be baked in the entire process from beginning to end, it's not a bolt on and can never be successful as a bolt on. So it surprises me to hear you say that still a lot of people are kind of behind the curve. >> Well I mean if you think about I, even though they say that, right? In a traditional model of the application you go to spend 6 months building it and then you can go spend a couple of weeks or month hardening and putting security around it. But when you are launching applications every 6 hours, you can spend 6 days addressing security, so it has to be built in. And speaking of RSA, if you recall, last year the big talk at RSA was around AI, right. Everything was AI driven security. My prediction, my bold prediction for this RSA is it's going to be all around Kubernetes security. >> Yeah, well it's applied AI. Applied AI for Kubernetes. >> Exactly. >> And that's what you need. I always feel for the SISO just walking the floor at RSA going, "Where do I begin? I mean where do I spend my money, how do I prioritize?" It's kind of like an insurance problem. You can't insure to the nth degree. You got to have a budget, but how do you deploy your assets? It's got to be super, super confusing. >> It really is. I think what your seeing is that SISO's are relying on their DEV and IT ops teams, right? They are partnering with the VP of platform, the VP of infrastructure, the VP engineering, because when you think about this new world security is really, the ownership of security is now shifting from the information's security teams to DevOps teams. So security teams still drive policy, and they still want to make sure they do the trust and verify, but the implementation of the security is now being owned by DevOps teams. So its a big cultural shift that's going on in organizations today. SISO's have to realize that it's no longer just them, but they have to partner with their DevOps counterparts to effectively address security for this cloud native stock. >> Right, so tell us a little bit about the relationship with Sumo. How do the applications work together? What's the solution look like when the 2 solutions are brought together. >> So Sumo has been a great partner. We have several joint customers. The simplest way to think about this is that Sumo does observability for Kubernetes, so that's logs, metrics, and tracing, and we do security from Kubernetes. We are the yin to their yang. What we do is we have taken all the intelligence we get from security and we feed it into the Sumo dashboard. Sumo customers get a single pane of glass, not just for the observability data, but also for their security violations, weather its for vulnerability, weathers it's for configuration or if it's for runtime threats, right? You get it all in one single place. >> Right. So I just want to get your take on kind of this rise of the momentum behind Hybrid Cloud that we've seen recently. Big announcement at Google Cloud show, with Anthos. Big announcement between VMware and Amazon. It always kind of swings back and forth. It was all in to public cloud and now there's a little bit of a pullback in Hybrid, but that's terrific for you. The fact of the matter is workload should run where they should run, they don't really care it's what's appropriate. Horses for courses, right? >> Precisely so, we see the shift from public cloud to Multi-cloud, and then from Multi-cloud to Hybrid cloud. The underlying infrastructure that makes that a reality are containers and Kubernetes, right? And that's why we've seen this tremendous momentum on Kubernetes. What we are seeing is customers that want to give their Dev teams that flexibility to pick their favorite cloud, or to do it on premises, their private clouds. But they want to make it in a single security solution that gets integrated no matter where you run your infrastructure and that's integrated back to your Sumo dashboard. So you have visibility across all Dev teams, all your application infrastructure, regardless of where they are running. There is one security standard that gets implemented. That is really, that's the future. You don't want to be beholden to a one claw provider, you want flexibility, you want choice. Kubernetes allows you to do that. >> Well and the whole thing becomes more autotomized, right, with autonomic memory, autonomic compute, autonomic store, throw that on an IoT and Edges and now you're starting to distribute all those pieces all over the place, which is going to happen. >> Kamal: It is going to happen for sure. >> All right, looking forward I can't believe we're almost through 2019, it still shocks me everyday I look at the calendar, but what are some of your priorities looking forward? What are you guys working on? What do you see coming down the pipe? >> Yes, so you touches on a couple of these. So today, is a lot of talk around Kubernete. We are seeing Kubernetes also get deployed in IoT and edge devices, we are also seeing they are being used to manage serve-less infrastructure. So we are going to continue to evolve as Kubernetes evolves. The other big trend that we are seeing in the market today is around service mesh. People talk a lot about Istio and Linkerd and using service mesh as your policy framework to drive consistent policies across applications, so that's another area where we are innovating very rapidly and that will become, I think, more and more real in enterprise deployments over 2020. >> Well, congratulations Kamal to you and the team. I think you picked a good horse to ride on, I should say ship, right, with Kubernetes. Thanks for taking a few minutes. >> No, thank you for having me. I can officially say now that I've checked off one of my professional bucket-list items, which is to be on the Cube with an old friend. So thank you for having me. >> Check that box man. All right, he's Kamal, I'm Jeff, you're watching the Cube. Were at Sumo Logic Illuminate from the Hyatt San Francisco Airport. Thanks for watching, see you next time.