>>  Welcome back to theCUBE everybody. This is a special digital presentation sponsored by Oracle Consulting. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise and we're going to multiple locations to really try to understand better the rebirth of Oracle Consulting. Stephanie Trunzo is here. She is the head of transformation and offerings at Oracle consulting North America. Stephanie, good to see you. >> Yeah, good to see you. >> Okay so we talked about sort of the mission of Oracle Consulting, now let's get into it and talk about some of what the customers are seeing. There's this theme in the industry that Gartner brought up about Bimodal IT and you guys are talking about Trimodal IT, so what is that all about? >> Well, two wasn't good enough so we had to add a third. (laughs) So Bimodal IT, two speed IT, the idea there is a lot of modern enterprises are struggling with this challenge between the systems of record that they have that have to be sources of truth. They're often slow to change. There's a lot of rigger around transforming those systems of record. And then on the second side, on the Bimodal side, there are the systems of interaction or systems of engagement, they're sometimes called. And those systems are things like the applications where there's users, customers at the other end. And they need to move at the speed of business. And so the idea of Bimodal IT and what a lot of our clients are struggling with currently is how do you serve both of those needs at the same time? There's complications in the processes, the tools, and certainly in the budget. And at the same time, there's kind of looming out there, this threat almost, that if you aren't in the AI NML data driven world yet, you're going to fall behind. And so our clients are struggling with the fact that they have not yet successfully addressed Bimodal IT, but still have to figure out how to get into this AI space. So our third system, hence Trimodal IT is the systems of intelligence. And that's what we've added. >> So, to make sure I've got the Bimodal right, >> Yeah sure. >> Is that, You've got people who are handling the systems of record you said. And so they have knowledge, they've got tribal knowledge, deep expertise, which may not be widespread. Kids coming out of school don't necessarily have that same expertise. And then there's sort of the systems of engagement kind of the new fun stuff. Did customers in your sense, buy into that? Or did they try to sort of cross-pollinate, as practitioners? >> Yeah they do buy into it. But they're really still struggling with the idea of Bimodal IT without even getting into the third system yet. So they are buying into it. The challenge, it's not even really about buying into it. It's addressing the challenge, because they have to overcome this legacy stuff, that they have in their system in order to address the speed of business. >> So the third piece, obviously relates to machine intelligence, AI, NML. It seems like that type of capability would apply to both systems of record and systems of engagement. Is that how you're looking at it? >> Yes, and so the Trimodal IT concept is kind of three different systems and how they interlock and relate to one another. If you think about systems of record, the currency, so to speak, for system of record are processes. If you think about the currency for systems of interaction it's the people, it's the users, it's the humans. And the currency for the system of intelligence is data, to your point. So when you're talking about systems of intelligence, collecting and leveraging data from all three systems is going to be what fuels your system of intelligence going forward. >> And that's the common thread between all three. And it just seems to me, that is ultimately the underpinning of modernization. I wonder what your customers, how do they view, and how do you view modernization? >> So the awesome thing about being at Oracle is data is our DNA. That's where Oracle started from, that's where we still are today is data underpins everything we do, all of the technology that we build is built on the understanding that it must be data-driven. And so when we're looking at all three of those systems and you're looking at it from an Oracle perspective, data is at the heart of even systems of record. Even systems of interaction, not only the systems of intelligence. When our clients are looking at modernization, they are trying to figure out a way to kind of leapfrog this story and get the whole way to a place where they are getting intelligence and insights out of their data. They're not just unlocking it. They're not just moving workloads in a lift and shift kind of model. They're doing it, because they want to serve the ultimate outcome that they get smarter as a business. >> So data is kind of like raw material, the AI or machine intelligence allows you to take data and create insights, if you will. And then cloud gives you scale and agility and all of those things. So Cloud's again another fundamental piece of, just from an infrastructure standpoint, and I think you guys define Cloud as sort of an experience, not a place. So it includes the on prime workloads, of course. So, talk about Cloud. Customers want to go from where they are today, to some outcome, some end point. And they don't want to spend a zillion dollars. And they don't want to disrupt their business. They are going to have to make investments, clearly. How do they get from point A to point B on that Cloud journey? >> So we've built something called a Cloud evolution framework. That Cloud evolution framework has several different phases and stages. And it's intended to be a skeleton to have that conversation with clients. Are you thinking about all of the things that you need to consider to make a healthy decision that has a real road map behind it. To your point on budget, and this is part of the Trimodal IT conversation is. They're struggling, I've talked to so many CIOs who are struggling to figure out. I right now am spending, 90% of my spend is on maintenance of systems versus on innovation. So how do I shift that spending story to something that is actually going to move the needle on getting the business ahead. That's going to serve my stakeholders, who are the lines of business, in a way that is not additive to my budget. But actually a shift of the budget. So we're looking at it from a Cloud perspective, helping our clients make that monetary shift. Make the shift of the budget where they're self-financing their own innovation by getting smarter and faster on moving their workloads to the Cloud. >> That's interesting, I want to come back to that self-financing. It reminds me of Y2K where you had all these activities going on, and the boom times. And then people wanted to go through an application rationalization exercise so they could self-fund really the innovation. >> Stephanie: Right. >> And when you're in the tenth year of a boom cycle, here. I wonder if there are similar things going on. Is that where the self-funding comes in? >> That's exactly it. So, I kind of use this example as a way of helping people consume and understand this. Marie Kondo, KonMari method is a popular, she wrote a best-selling book. She's on Netflix. The premise of her concept is helping to declutter your life. And her premise is you should hold each object in your hand and say, "Does it bring me joy?" And if it does, I'm going to keep it. And if it doesn't, I'm going to thank it for it's service, and get rid of it. And so we're talking to our clients about something very similar. You said, rationalization exercise and it's precisely the same thing. We're kind of using the KonMari method, if you will, to help our clients make those determinations. What are the things that they still need? What are the things that they can de-commission? What are the things that can stay where they are? And you don't have to do anything with, because they are serving the purpose just fine. >> Yeah, we're kind of hoarders by nature, and creatures of habit, so you have all these applications that nobody's using, but you're still spending maintenance and-- >> Stephanie: Correct. >> Keeping them up and it may not be delivering, and many aren't delivering value to the organization. So you want to double down on those that do. You guys use this concept and other do as well, of the autonomous enterprise. You have the autonomous database, I wonder if we could drill into that. Get passed the buzz words. What is the autonomous enterprise and what is Oracle's fit there? >> Yeah, I think one of the big misconceptions when people here autonomous, is that they think it means without people. And that's not right. (laughs) So, autonomous means that you're helping elevate all the parts of the system to their highest value. Which means, you don't need to worry about security patches. You don't need to worry about repairing things on the database. Those kinds of autonomous things is the technology helping heal and serve itself. That doesn't mean you don't need people anymore. What it means is two things. You need the experts that can help make sure that you're optimizing the value you get out of the autonomous tooling, but it also means that the humans are now freed up to do different kinds of high value work. So, an autonomous enterprise would be one where they're really sort of self-actualized. In the sense that their technology is feeding itself. It's getting smarter, and they're getting insights out of that, so that the people in their business are as valuable as they can be, leveraging the insights from the technology. >> So I can see how that trickles into IT. No questions about it. Can the autonomous IT organization trickle into the autonomous enterprise? And I mean I know it's sort of early days, but how do you see that shaping up? >> So, these kind of transformations, I believe are fundamentally across the whole company. And this is true at Oracle as well. We have something called Oracle@Oracle. And it's about drinking our own champagne and applying our own technology in house. So it's not just in an IT organization capacity. It's across HR, Procurement, Legal, every supporting function you can imagine. So that cultural change bleeds out across the entire body of the company. And I believe fully that if you're going after something like an AI mission or an autonomous enterprise state, which is an evolution that you need to involve everyone in the company in different roles. >> So what's that future state look like? >> I think the future state looks like a place where you're not just getting incremental gains on business processes or tasks that already exist. You're fundamentally seeing shifts in the way the business runs itself, as a result of the technology learning and getting smarter. And the people who are benefiting from that technology changing the way they operate in the company as well. >> So you mentioned the sort of decluttering example before, which I love, I'm getting that book. And are there other examples that inspire you? >> There are. So there was an anecdote, a client told me this story, which is a fantastic story, kind of triggered a thought for me. Told a story about a guy who was retiring. And at his retirement dinner, he told a story that 30 years ago when he started at the company. He remembers his dad teaching him, how to use the application that he then spent his entire career building and maintaining. As I heard that story, and they jokingly said at this point, our only solution is to get him out of retirement or find his son. (laughs) I thought about that, and I thought about 23 and me. You know 23 and me? >> Yes. >> So it's a DNA testing, tells you your heritage, lineage. And we're kind of at a state now, where a lot of our enterprise clients legitimately have these systems of record applications that are generations old, human generations old. So getting into the weeds on what that looks like, I've been telling clients pretty often lately. Institutional knowledge is the enemy, right? It's the enemy of the autonomous enterprise. If you have a challenge where you keep referring to the same name (laughs). If Bob leaves, we're in big trouble. If Sally isn't here anymore, that's a trigger for you to know that that's something you need to pay attention to. Because that institutional knowledge is not getting built into your technology. >> So what do you guys do? Do you put some kind of abstraction layer around that system of record, so that it can be automated? Is that part of what you do? >> Sure. So we're looking at, there's a couple different ways you can go about it. So you can look at the systems of record as a partial move that you do over time to the Cloud. And so you have to be pretty smart about the pattern and how you do that. Moving the workloads, kind of whole, will give you a little bit of that self-financing ability to dig in deeper and start transforming them. >> Okay, Trimodal IT. We'll be watching. (laughs) All right, Stephanie, thanks so much. It was great to see you. >> Absolutely, thanks. >> And thank you for watching. You're watching theCUBE at the special digital presentation. We'll be right back after this short break. (upbeat electronic music)