(upbeat pop music) >> [Narrator] France! It's theCUBE, covering .NEXT Conference 2017 Europe. Brought to you by Nutanix. (upbeat pop music) >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCube. Happy to welcome to the program, first time guest, gonna help me with some analysis of what's been happening here at the show, Keith Humphreys, who is the managing consultant at euroLAN Research. Thanks so much for joining us. >> My pleasure, Stu. >> Alright, so, Keith, you and I were the only analysts at the Vienna show last year, they've grown he analyst program a little bit as, you know, most of us in the community been watching Nutanix for many years. Tell us a little bit about kind of your background, and what specifically you focus on. >> Okay, so, euroLAN is an industry analyst company focused on helping vendors optimize routes to market in Europe. So, we're a channel analyst company founded in '93, in Paris, France, I was employee number five, and we're still about five consultants, and as I say, we're very vendor focused on channels. >> Yeah, well, it goes without saying, in our industry things are changing a lot, but boy, has the channel been changing massively, you know, everything from the impact of service providers to the public cloud. So, let's start kind of at the macro level a little bit. What are some of the big issues? The channels always, you know, we say they're coin operated. Where do they make money, where are they concerned about, what's exciting them these days? >> I think at a macro level what's really exciting, if you look at the book B four B, it describes the risk having gone from corporate back to the vendor. So, before the enterprise used to buy kit, buy stuff, buy products and have to integrate them themselves, take 18 months before they actually got a working product, but in the mean time the vendors had produced the invoice, maybe not even shipped the kit before they could recognize the revenue, now with as-a-service that's totally changed. The risk is gone from the customer, right they way back to the vendor, it's a fascinating point, and the channel's stuck in between here, trying to be the good guys, still trying to integrate that stuff, still trying to produce those solutions, but only getting paid at an annuity revenue model. It's very different. >> Yeah, you know, I was involved in some of the early convergent infrastructure solutions, and you go to some companies and they're like, "We make tons of money racking and stacking and cabling." We're like, "Come on, that's not huge value add, let's help you add more value, get more involved, be more consultative solution-selling and the like." We've only seen that accelerate with the like of hyper converge infrastructure and solutions-as-a-service as you said where sometimes it's just frictionless, just acquire what I need when I need it. How's the channel doing? >> I think the channel's doing okay, but they're in denial, because of this issue. I think if you look at the way Nutanix started as a box provider and now moving to software, some of the channel is really railing against that, and saying, "We still want to do it this way." They're not learning the lesson that they must move to an annuity model basis, because it's a huge business transformation. We jointly run a workshop with IDC to help system integrators make that transition across, and we've only booked through a half a dozen companies for it. They should be knocking our door down to go through this, but they're finding it really hard. >> Alright, so, how's Nutanix doing in the channel? >> So, I think, interestingly, I think it was Chad Sakac of VMware said that they're having to bring out a proof of concept box for vSphere. So they can put that box into customers, so they can try it out. Interesting for a software vendor you're having to package something, so they've gone in that direction. Where as Nutanix are moving in the other direction, going to software only from the box. That's fascinating, but they're trying to drag that channel with them. Are CDW really happy that they're moving to a software-only model? Maybe not. >> Well, look, we've been discussing this week the software-only model, of course, there's still gotta be an appliance somewhere. So, from a channel standpoint, if tomorrow Nutanix says, "Hey, we're only gonna do software and you're gonna do..." does that have a significant impact on the channel, if they now get it if it's a distributor, or some other piece, how much will that impact the channel? >> I think it's going back to the old model of digital days where the channel partner's going back to integrating stuff. Which I think is great news for them, because they can add value, but have they still got the skills? A lot of them have lost those skills, they've been de-franchised or they've de-franchised themselves. >> Yeah, we'll see how that plays out, as to whether it comes in a similar form factor. I don't expect that they're gonna be getting Lego pieces and putting together, it's still mostly gonna be pieces. How 'bout Nutanix's been going a lot of new directions, trying to expand, software-only isn't just about saying, kinda the base stack and AHV, but Zai and calm. Some of these other pieces. Is the channel ready for these kind of things? Does Nutanix have to then do way more of it and the channel's just for filling it? How does that dynamic work? >> I think Nutanix has to go out and create the market. They've got to make end customers aware of this and then the enterprise customers will be asking their channel partners for it so they'll have to get up to speed. You know it's a push and pull model to channel. You can't just push through the channel. I heard someone from Nutanix describe the channel as an extension of their sales force. It's just not. You know computer center's go out and sell computer centers. They don't sell Nutanix. They sell their customer benefit and Nutanix is a small part of that solution. Every project is software based. It's around SAP. It's around Oracle and there's some infrastructure to run it on. It's a small part. >> It's interesting, I got to interview a service provider that has then become a reseller of Nutanix solutions. We sometimes say that service providers are the new channel. How is that dynamic playing out? >> Well, if I was to want infrastructure in our office I wouldn't phone British Telecom for it. (laughs) >> Fair enough. What about, we're talking about the multi cloud world. I've found that there's some systems integrators out there that are offering Azure services, some are engaging AWS has been really good at building out their channel. How's that in Europe these days? How much is the channel engaged in the public cloud? >> We're seeing Amazon with AWS starting to reach out to the channel at long last, with channel programs, channel recruitment. They're not gonna get rich reselling that but they'll get rich by putting the professional services on there. You know, what should I run on here? Is it good for computers? Is it good for scaling? Is it good for additional workloads? They've gotta add professional services but even as we run our workshops we see exactly the same thing. As they move to as-a-service, it might be profitable to a degree but it takes you four or five years to get there. So you've gotta be adding professional services on top of that revenue to maintain it. >> Well, I have to think there's good opportunity there because while there was this promise the future's gonna be simple. Right? Public cloud, it's nice and easy swipe a credit card and good. There's so many features out there. SaaS, anybody's that's used SaaS providers when they really wanna use it there's requirements there. So is the channel stepping up to fill some of that gap or will the Accentures, those kind of consulting come in and take that revenue? >> I think it depends on the company's size. We profiled in our newsletter a small UK company who get digital transformation. This quarter we profiled Accenture. They're both doing the same things, just addressing different parts of the market. I think the other interesting thing is, you mentioned the difficulty, obviously AWS uses its own terminology and it looks very complicated but what I do like is the Nutanix one click based around machine learning. That's really exciting. Sudheesh Nair was just talking about DeepMind's AlphaGo Zero and how it's learned the Chinese Go Program. It self learned that. No one taught that. It actually self learned that. There was an article on the FT which was trying to say this is frightening. It's not frightening if we're gonna move into an IoT age, if we're gonna move into an autonomous car age. We're gonna need software that's written to Sigma Nine not Sigma Six and I think only machines can do that. We're not very good at writing software. >> Keith, what more should Nutanix be doing? What advice do you give them on what they can do to engage even more with the channel? >> They've gotta ramp up the marketing. They've gotta provide the air cover for the channel. They've gotta go out and create the demand, create the awareness. The channel will follow through on that. >> One last question I have for you, what advice do you give to the channel today? For them to stay profitable, stay relevant, in this ever changing future? >> It's professional services and annuity revenue. Days of selling boxes are gone. They'll always be boxes you say but you know, it's pure commodity now. Maybe they should invest in super micro? >> Alright. Well Keith Humphries, pleasure to talk with you again and thank you much for joining us. >> Thanks Stu >> We'll be back with lots more coverage here from Nutanix .Next in Nice, France. You're watching theCube. (upbeat pop music)