hey welcome back here ready Jeff Rick here with the key we're at the chief data scientist USA conference in downtown San Francisco and we're really excited to have a representative from IBM Sam Lightstone distinguished engineer from IBM join us Sam great to se you thank you very much pleasure to be here absolutely so we cover a ton of IBM events we're at world of Watson world lots of developer conference big the big event in New York earlier this year around strata so you know we're big fans of all the things that IBM is doing and in Rob Thomas and the SPARC group so I could go on and on but we won't go there we'll talk about what you were talking about earlier today and kind of let the cat out of the bag which is always exciting breaking news or breaking Bay there I don't know exactly how we would describe it but you talked about something new IBM data confluence yeah you could share this what's that all about yeah so it's a it's a whole new idea a whole new paradigm that were that we were incubating right now inside of IBM and it's not yet available but we're hoping to start trials in January ish timeframe but it comes from a realization that so much data is about to come upon us from distributed data sources you know everybody's got not only your cell phone but increasingly data is coming from Internet of Things you're gonna have data coming from your car data come from your glasses some smart meters on your house and it's deluge of data and the way that people like to do data science on this data today is they pull this data from these devices and put it into a central repository which is which is a perfectly legitimate strategy but it means that you're creating copies of the data and there's a certain complexity of dragging that data through the internet into some central repository so the idea that we had with data confluence is to leave the data where it is and create and allow the data all these different data sources if you can imagine cars you can imagine cell phones or smart meters on buildings allow them to find one another and collaborate on data science problems like a computational mesh so that we can bring hundreds thousands millions of microprocessors to bear on the data where it lives without moving it around and our theory is not only is that simpler for everyone because the data doesn't have to move around but we can actually bring more computation to bear because every one of those data sources has compute and has persistence and you can multiply the the opportunities right and you took a chance you ran a live demo which is you know always risky business at any anything but but there was a really interesting because concepts that you highlighted kind of organically forming adapting constellation right of these of these sources and the example you use they were solar panels but for them to do this kind of automatically if you will as opposed to someone going in and scripting and building the structure because tomorrow as you demonstrated in your demo you might want to add more or add more so exactly that dynamic functions are pretty pretty interesting yeah and it's a very powerful concept and a very necessary concept and the reason it's so necessary is these devices could be anywhere right and you could have most your devices in New York but a few of them in the Yukon or Alaska or something and you don't want them to all be equally connected right so it's important to be sensitive to create this network that is sort of geospatially aware and connectivity aware not not just sort of hard-coded you know so that so one aspect of that is to be sensitive to network latency and topology that's one reason why it has to be automatic the other reason has to be automatic is if you really want this to scale to thousands of devices you can't have some programmer trying to figure out who connects to what right it's just too hard right so making it really adaptive and automatic is super important another thing that's really important for the Internet of Things is depending on the on the circumstance but if you can imagine cell phones for example you can have a network of thousands millions of phones but at any point in time somebody some of those funds are gonna be turned off so the network has to be adaptive to the possibility that devices go offline right are there intentionally like a phone perhaps unintentionally because they break you know if you have a device on a smart meter it may simply break and then that particular device is offline for a period of time right so the network has to be resilient to that and that's part of what we've been building in particular using technology that we incubated in our UK labs in Hursley so it's it's been a great collaboration across IBM this is not just you know one you know one set of people in one lab but actually a corporate collaboration and really our goal is to make this as you say automatic but I would I would say beyond automatic to make it resilient right there's got to be resilient and fault tolerant because the complexities that we could be dealing with are just too large for human being to deal with right and clearly and distributed right that's the big thing guys we're leveraging IBM bluemix cloud you know all this stuff doesn't happen with with cloud capabilities and the demo you did here you were here the data center was concerned San Jose and the actual data elements were in in Toronto so just you know Amazon and Microsoft and Google are always you know get talked about a lot it within the cloud space but really iBM is making major players and it if not in that top three certainly right there in the fourth position as a leader in cloud and then what this cloud enables and then really kind of with the whole cognitive push you know that's a priority for Ginni and the team to really bring more intelligence he's exactly right and what data confluence you know what we're hoping not only to tap in to data science on distributed systems for IOT and also for enterprise use cases as well but really to take it to the next level of hybrid cloud because these data sources could be in the cloud and they could be on-premises they could be anywhere in the world and you can mix and match and that's really a very powerful capability for our customers many companies now struggling as their data is now part cloud and part on-premises right and in the compute as well right you could deal shift exactly compute from the edge to the cloud you know a dynamic fashion based on what the kind of optimal solution is or as you said sometimes over the edges off lined and you can't do it there it's exactly right so kind of a cool story you said this came out of a out of something called blue unicorn what is blue you know fantastic so blue unicorn was an initiative that a few of us got together on inside of IBM you probably know some of these folks Rob Thomas so I think you've interviewed gears from Karachay Leah and myself and the three of us got together and we said you know we want to find a more effective way to tap in to the creative juices of our staff we got some of the greatest minds in the world working at IBM we hire brilliant people PhDs masters of the top schools all over the world and all too often we hire these people and we tell them what they should be working on that wouldn't it be better if we could find a repeatable process for them to come to us and say here's the next big innovation that IBM ssin should have and blue unicorn came out of that desire to tap into and and nurture this creative passion of of our staff and was really designed almost like an internal VC initiative so people would would come to us with proposals and we've got those proposals we start out with hundreds and feted it down to dozens that down to just a small few that we would fund from the ones that we funded you know that would go through periodic reviews until eventually we ended up with a very small set that are still being incubated and and did a confluence happen to have been one of those projects awesome so it's different than kind of the 10% thing this is actually almost like an internal you you put your proposal together you pitch it whereas if it was an internal VC you get funded and then you go do that with your team right one thing I would say is one of the you know as we're setting up we're trying to find ways to make it work make it efficient one of the best filtering factors that we came up with is that people had to show us running code before it was funded right right and that was amazing because that meant people had to work nights and weekends they had to have that level of passion and commitment for their idea to get to that level of vetting and that was incredible that that definitely filtered the people who were super passionate about what they were doing and the people just said yeah I'd like to tinker and that was tremendous okay and then you're here at the show melting a small show tight group kind of multi industry any good takeaway surprises from the last couple days here at the chief data science USA show you know it's been an amazing conference actually and some great speakers some great insights I think one of the most useful insights for me was was I was curious to hear from this audience what is the duration of data that is important to them do they need to see data from the last hour the last month the last year the last 10 years and of course it does vary from problem to problem but many people said you know for the work that I do I need about three months to build a model and then once I have a model I'm really looking at the last two to four weeks of data to gain data science insight and that was a very important point for me especially as we continue on our work on analytics data science and IBM it's very important for us to understand the range of data that that people are using shorter than you seem sure yeah it's shorter because I know certainly in the data warehousing space that I've been working a lot of my career in people do data analytics on you know six months a year or three years right so this is this is it definitely is somewhat of a shift and it tells us something about our society that things are moving faster and the idea that's older than six months is is usually not as interesting anymore yeah really shows kind of the dynamic real-time nature it's not this is analyzing just the old stuff is interesting but not nearly as interesting as being on top of where's the spark stream somebody's other thing is funny Beth Comstock kicked off the GU minds and machines event a couple days ago she said we even walk faster in cities they've done so everything is continuing to speed up right all right so you're from now you're back here what are we gonna be talking about Wow okay well you know we just launched a few months or a few weeks ago actually the the Watson Data Platform a huge event for us and it really is for us the foundation the data foundation of all the cognitive computing that we're that IBM is coming out with it's gonna bring together data science and data storage and collaboration across you know amongst analysts and data scientists together all all one platform for all your data needs I'm hoping that a year from now I'm going to speak to you about how data confluence is a core part of that of that platform and we're gonna be raeng analytics on millions of devices all over the world all right Sam well thanks for taking a few minutes I know you gotta go catch an airplane for stopping by and sharing your insight thank you all right Sam lights on I'm Jeff Creek you're watching the cube thanks for watching

but cute at servicenow knowledge 14 is sponsored by service now here are your hosts Dave vellante and Jeff Creek we're back hi everybody this is Dave vellante with Jeff Frick we're here live at knowledge 14 this is service now it's big customer event about 6,600 people up from about four thousand last year as we've been saying it's kind of tracking the growth of service now which has been pretty meteoric we heard from Mike scarpelli the CFO Frank's loot men they're really doubling down and it's exciting to see we're here in San Francisco where all the action is Jeffrey Moore is here author consultant pundits all-around smart guy cube alum greatly again thank you here so um so you're speaking at the CIO decisions i love the fact that they got so many CIOs here who real CIA a lot of times these conferences you get to you know the infrastructure guys but so what's the vibe like over there well you know it's kind of cool because if you think about service now and you go back to say 10 years this was all about how to make IT more productive around the ITIL model and you know and you'd use these automated services to do this stuff what's happening and Frank nailed it in the keynote he said look this infrastructure can be turned inside out and you can service enable the entire enterprise not just IT need a service enterprise you know HR you can decision a marketing eight-day any other shared service you can turn into a bunch of services that you can sort of call in and use service now as a platform so so the cios it was all about well that that's a different that's a different vision and so how do we map from the old way of sort of thinking about this is an internal productivity facility to this new way of saying no this is an enterprise enablement platform that's a big that's a big move a little bit like Salesforce going to force calm that same flavor yes sir frank's keynote was talking about how the CIO has to become you know more business savvy and of course we've heard that a lot for years and years and years but in fact a number of the folks that we've had on here at the service now are actually of that hill maybe they came from the business but most CIOs didn't necessarily come from the business they weren't P&L managers they weren't running sales do you see that changing yeah I think what happened in the 20th century was IT was sufficiently complex that frankly you had to be a technical person to do it it just it was just really hard and and yes you needed business consultants but the end of the day you needed ten percent business consultants and ninety percent technical people I think we've come a long way since then in the next generation of stuff is more around systems of engagement these things that that communicate with each other as opposed to systems of record and so the profile the winning IT strategy is migrating from help us run information about our business in the back office to help us actually re-engineer the dynamics of our business in the world in the present and that's like going from from data to behavior them it's a big we call it going from systems of record to systems of engagement it's a big show and is that that transition in your mind is very disruptive so what happens to all those purveyors and buyers of systems of engagement to they morph into obsessive record do they morph into systems of engagement do they just get blown away no it's interesting so so so first of all you're never going to get rid of your systems of record but at the margin we've probably extracted most of the lifetime value from that investment already so you need to maintain them and so the industry is consolidating a round of an anchor set of vendors who we trust to do that but the growth is going to be like if you look at systems of engagement we might have gotten five percent of the lifetime value there so at their margin if you have a dollar to spend people want to spend it in there so the challenge of being an incumbent is I'm not going to lose my base but man the growth is happening over here so the real challenge for that for the incumbent vendors is how can i participate in the new world and still maintain my relationships in the old world whereas the new guys are just coming and saying i don't i'll leave the old world of you guys i just want to play over here i can get your take on the structure of the IT business is you've observed as have i sort of these disruptions and these changes over time so obviously we went from being framed at pc you saw that the competitive line started to get more disintegrated yes i could use that that term a competition occurred on those I see that Intel's ascendancy in Microsoft and Oracle the best database companies the emc was the storage company and everything was sort of you know siloed and but leadership the leadership matrix has largely stayed intact I mean even IBM and okay HP said its ends up and down but it's largely stayed intact do you see the cloud changing that fundamentally changing the economic yes I think yes I think what happened is so in the client server error we did we built the stack what you're just described and every layer of the stack had a leader now I think since 2000 y2k that stack is being compressed meaning there are fewer and fewer vendors that are still in the in that in that leadership cadre and as we go to like cloud and computing the service you start saying well yeah i still have cisco in there i still have IBM in there but maybe i'm buying them as a service rather than as a set of equipment so you kind of can feel that world just I think compressing this look is the right word and where is the experimentation the opportunity to sort of find new places to go to it's very much in this world outboard of the IT data center where it it is about engaging engaging with your customer engaging with your employee engaging with your supply chain and using mobile things and social and you know analytics and cloud and all these new technologies the freedom to do that is is actually outboard of the of the old style I show you what you described as sort of an oligopoly and you've got these big whales and I've always asking you know guys who follow this it are we going to see somebody to disrupt that Amazon is the obvious you have to go to them a three billion dollar you know company growing at sixty percent a year with marginal economics of services that look like software yep but at the same time it's okay they've got this huge lead but it doesn't just make sense to me that it's sustainable I mean because hardware economics never will go to 0 so you would think that somebody was almost like the IBM early pc days remember IBM heavily yep we're domin to play that's kind of what kind of way amazon is now do you do you see that you see more competition from amazon why is it that they don't have direct competition so the less of the last book i wrote in the last the thing i've been working on most recently is around why is it so hard for the established incumbents to catch the next wave and the problem is so you look at why amazon's why is Amazon so unopposed in many of its initiatives well their business model in the economic model is completely divorced from the incumbent model and so you look at the incumbent in there going it's not that I don't see what the guys are doing I get what they're doing I just don't see how I can get my investors or my my whole infrastructure on to that new place in my example that was code at so you know Antonio Perez came from HP he knew what he was getting into he understood digital everybody at Kodak understood digital but they couldn't get to the other place so in this it would call it escape velocity how do you free yourself from your own paths and you you really do have to take a pretty dramatic approach to it and I think by the way i think i'm looking at microsoft in particular i think it I think Microsoft's going to give a very very big run at doing it and but I think that they're still more the exception than the rule you would wish that every one of those vendors would say look you know because every CIO here if any of those vendors came to him and said hey we're going to really try to play here will you help they'd say yes they don't want to change their relationships but but we get trapped in these business models and then you sort of grind and you grind and grind and after a while it's like well man you've just ground yourself to do I owe the classic label Christensen right individuals dilemma and it also makes a question is d said David's been the same characters kind of changing companies had not Jeff Bezos and Amazon come in with a completely different model to drive cloud with the other people who still has to transfer so they want to give credit to you want to bet it to be so so you want to give credit to Benioff by the way Benioff has been has been the kind of prow of a ship that brings in the illusory at work day brings in netsuite brings in service service now you know so the software-as-a-service thing is coming in at one level and remember if you were an on-premise guy it's very very how many years did did SI p commit an enormous amount of money to say we're going to have a great cloud offering and it just it's so hard so so it is so and then you're looking now at this sort of this next layer of collaborative IT and you're seeing box and octant hang all these cool thing and analytics and splunk consumer logic and all these companies going really I mean I you know I mean if your fear of my age is like okay you have a t-shirt they got love to you think I'm a teacher but but but the point is this free space and they're saying there's these cool problems to solve we're not encumbered by any of the legacy we're going to race ahead and so if you're a CIO well we spent most of our time with the cios today was ok i have established set of relationships here i'm not going to abandon them but at the margin i need them to help me think about the future I thought these really start sparkly new startups some i'm sure not going to exist next year but some are going to be the leaders so how play that game right now and and the pressure it's putting on the IT organization is the people I know that are good at this are not the people that are good at this and so how do I so we had to talk about talent and how do you manage and how do you create career paths and and is it or do you have a infrastructure officer vs an innovation office I'm it was all around that same prob right and then oh by the way there's Hadoop and mobile and big data and some of these other just open source innovations that are being just thrown all these guys played it is so from a technology plate from a technology play if you're technologists it's like bring it on right but I think the interesting thing is and most of my career aighty was about the business so you ran a business and you had IT systems which gave you information about your business what's happened in the last 15 years is that more and more sectors of the economy i T is becoming the business so you saw what happened the newspapers in facilitate with IT isn't about the newspaper business IT is displacing the newspaper business Google is displaced in the media business amazon is displacing retail you know mobile banking is displacing banking Airbnb uber I mean this so there we have the taxi guys are worried them it and so you start saying it isn't IT isn't about the business it's a digital world and and so all of us and that was it i think that was probably at the core of the discussion so which cio am i what do I have permission to be would do my colleagues get this you know am I competent to do it if they do I mean you've talked about this a lot and you've given a number of examples so so was nicked car just dead wrong in 2003 or just to a narrow it is to keep what he was saying I believe is that systems of record okay are dead I think at that time by the way it wasn't obvious there was anything else because it no serious i can remember to you know the whole venture community kind of abandoned itv4 about researcher ivan on 101 yeah it was and even in the end even in the physical infrastructure there's still the idea is the basis of the competitive and about the reporting system yeah and i think this issue about so i think there's still a few businesses we're really IT still is about the business and you know what you can kind of stick with whatever you were doing you'll be okay but if your business is under an existential threat meaning the new IT model eviscerates your business model which arguably you could say all those both those incumbent stack vendors you know I mean cloud does eviscerate the on-premise hardware data center business model which was the fundamental foundation of IT as I knew it for all my business career and now all this it's like holy how do i how do i how do I deal with it so we talk about Amazon as a potential you know new you know big whale Salesforce is obviously he's got it but they've been around since 99 there's going to be exception mm-hmm proves the rule I don't maybe a service now or a workday you know we'll see if this market is big enough it looks like it it might be what often happens is they these guys let's get gobbled up or Larry Ellison writes a check you say these to denigrate people who write write checks not code I think the biggest matter and they got such mass never was afraid to reinvent himself change the game change the dynamics of the industry so do you think we will see a another big player and where will that comfort will it be the SAS guys will it be the sum of the guys out of the hadoop world what I don't think it will so here here's what I don't think will work I don't think you can be an established incumbent vendor under this compression power and write a check and get yourself back I think what happens when you write a check if you just bring a hot property into cold molecules and it loses its exactly exactly so I don't think that will work I think if you want to be one of these incumbents and succeed over here you have to actually pull part of your own DNA and capability and we literally just jump and then I think you can acquire it to it to build a thing there but what Larry did was he consolidate he basically was the first guy to figure out Nick Carr is right I need to buy up all the properties yep and brother George ball and run a maintenance business which by the way came to read and Georgia computer associates had that play up in the eighties it's the same play with this is a different plan well I love what you say in emc is an interesting one to watch the way to chi is setting up this Federation with pivotal and VMware you know who see we'll see what happens with the quarry NC and I think VI 3 of 8 yeah I think that that is I mean VMware's one of the wonderful examples of think we're a company did not cause the hot molecules become the cold molecules the thing you wonder there though is it feels a little bit like a like a holding company if you will and so and by the way vmware is in a curious tweener right like they kind of were the most they made the old stack incredibly productive so in some sense they can feel like they're part of the old world right they're probably the newest kid on the old world but then you think well yeah but I want to look at their plan now they want to be into software-defined networks they wanted me to software-defined data centers they definitely want to play over here and what it's in this case so state partners Wow one could argue that that was it because of what big in the cloud virtualize computing absolutely absolutely so what're you working on these days that's exciting well so that I think this issue of working with management teams to say okay look this is a self-imposed exile that we're putting ourselves under you know we get it i'll call it the Kodak problem because I don't want to talk about anybody in high tech specifically at the moment but the point is every management team in the established vendor group puts itself on a self imposed discipline to make you know certain kinds of eps things certain kinds of growth you know whatever it is the expectations of their investors and you look at the situation you say guys that is a slope glide path to extinction we all know that and by the way off the record they know it's no it's not that that is this is not a failure of it like this is a failure of will so then the question is well so how do you negotiate a different path and part of it is you have to make you have you have to be able to tell a story of your investors part of it is you have to negotiate a different operating model inside the company and what they've done so far is they said well okay we've got our established businesses and we've got our innovative businesses and we know enough to keep them apart so that part is not the problem and they actually come up with cool stuff the the moment of truth is when can you scale any of these innovative businesses to compete to actually be a material part of your historical portfolio meaning in my terminology at least ten percent of your total revenue going to twenty percent in what happens in that journey is it a key point you have to draw on the resources of your established business and all the people that make their living and they're compensated on getting the next quarter in the next quarter go guys I can't make the quarter and do this and you've got it you've got to find a way to say you know if we don't figure out a way to pull some of that resource over here and play our next hand will invent everything in the world but we'll never get it to scale and so there's there's a bunch of stuff around business model planning and then Investor Relations organizational development it's all around saying and the key there's two key ideas idea number one is it's a go-to-market problem not an RD problem you do not have an innovation problem you can't get your thing to market and the second cool idea is you can only do one of the time and everybody says well but give have the risk to so high you got a three or four or five of these things maybe want to work it's like know the sacrifice is so great if you put two or more horses in the race people people won't even run so the other one that's a focus and don't it's ok not to make the quarter that's like on American looking like michael dunn right i mean that's obsessively what he's hoping to be able to do and i think one of the reasons you see people go private is to say i can't play this game bye-bye normal public company protocol i mean i like to but i can't get there from here now i actually don't think every company ought to have to go private to do this but i think they do have to change their playboys all right Jeff we have to leave it there hey great to see you thank you very much me feel smarter just hanging out with you right there buddy we'll be right back after this is the cube you

but cute at servicenow knowledge 14 is sponsored by service now here are your hosts Dave vellante and Jeff Creek we're back this is Dave vellante with Jeff Frick we're here live at moscone south and we're covering wall-to-wall this knowledge conference service now transforming IT from a cost center into a value producer services is the the tip of the spear service oriented businesses we're seeing this notion of a single cmdb as a single data model as a very powerful concept and one that the majority of companies don't have today but the ones that are moving in that direction are definitely transforming in a way that is pretty meaningful Brad Powell is here he's the vice president of internal customer technologies that merits a customer of service now Brad welcome back to the queue good thank you it's good to be here so you are speaking at this event right absolutely what's your topic IT evolution so taking IT to the next level okay so before we get it to that tell us a little bit about your company you know you roll what you've been doing you know the last since we last talked sure absolutely well we're actually going through a huge cultural shift inside of merits right now and it's all about the people right IT needs to realize that we're really a service based organization now and so that's really hard for people to grasp right we talk about i.t changing all the time and when IT people here that they think moving from one technology to a new technology this time it's completely different it's all about the people so we're asking the IT people to change and be more like sales people to really sell the services that it's-- offering and that's difficult for them so I'm really driving that inside America's culture from an organization perspective to really get out in front of it and solve real people needs you know we talk about business needs it's really people needs that we need to solve and so that's what I've been up to so what are some of the secrets because we that keeps coming up over and over that is going to change and like it its people and probably love we're getting out of their comfort zones oh absolutely are they reset you know how receptive are they really i think you know you have some people that are receptive some people that aren't but they have to get out of there there there East their comfort right to be able to do this and what it really takes is you got to step back and look at the bigger picture right this is kind of where tools come in IT has always been this kind of working on request working on incidents tracking it in that way those metrics are really are useless to our customers because we are trying to prove our existence by numbers they don't care right they carry solving my problems right so we have to transition them out and that's where you bring tools in because what you're able to do is automate those activities right and anytime that you're freeing up from them that's when you take them out and move them into the business actually sitting with the business to understand and listen to what they're saying so that they can solve those business needs so that's what you have to do and it is very uncomfortable for IT I always think about the old saturday night live skit I don't know if you guys remember it but it had the IT people and they call right and they'd say here can you solve this and you'd say click here do this do this and they move and then they jump out of the way and he'd slam on the keyboard and fix it right that's the old IT that's the old silo die team we don't have that anymore now we need to listen become that sales become brokers of services it's interesting you talk about you know sales itea sales people I had we had one of the guests on Martha hella actually said generally IT people are not great salespeople they undersell mom now now part of the issue is a sales person you want a hot product right we got a hot product that you're really proud of then it's easier mm-hmm to sell so I guess the question is how has your product evolved in the last you know in years and and what have been the drivers so the product how you need to evolve you know when you're started talking about tools is ease of use that is going to be the number one selling for your customers of IT above anything else so if I can give the customer solution like they get it at home you know if they have a problem they google it they look it up they fix it themselves so you need to really take that to the next level and sell that where you bring the people in to get them engaged is they know the back-end technology in order to make that happen and so they get excited about that and then what you need to do is put people in front of them to really sell that to the business I'm talking marketing slicks I'm talking everything that's where you need to do really so you guys are doing collateral yeah we have to be able to sell your IT services I mean that's what it's all about we are transitioning to a service based culture one hundred percent and you know you brought up a good point there are a lot of people that just can't make that transition it doesn't mean that we don't need them anymore what it does mean though is you need to really focus their efforts in a certain area and then put that customer facing sales oriented people out in front of the customers so what was the contribution of service now to this transformation was it you know a little small piece of it was it the you know the other end of the spectrum the reason why was it the key enabler talk about them yeah well when you look at it and this is you know coming back to from a tools discussion is what you want to do is you want to be able to free up that it's-- time right in order to do that you need to automate in order to automate you need tools to automate which is the orchestration pieces and things like that of service now so that is actually enabler for us to free up the time to get in front of the businesses to be able to sell our services so that was a really big step in the right direction the other thing is ticketing systems of the past were just really used to track things right that's not the case anymore you don't just track things with IT ticketing systems now what you want to do is actually use it to sell your service okay so you have to build your catalog you have to build all those services in such a way that's easy to use like an Amazon things like that so that you can really sell those services and that's where the tools come in so it's actually twofold it frees up your IT people's time in order for them to get in front of business and then you need to use it to sell and get out of IT get into facilities management get into HR management all of those different things are huge and really it's like an upsell for IT well Brad that's really interesting because the research that we've done it with you gone so you started with problem management and change management like most service now customers but the research we've done at Wikibon when we asked people about moving to transforming to IT as a service and do you know service catalogs and what the biggest challenges what they tell us is that the hardest part is aligning with the business figuring out what the business needs aligning with those business needs developing those service catalogs in a way that resonates right the business so if I heard you correctly you're saying you started with problem and change management and all the sort of blocking and tackling and then that freed up resources for you guys to actually go and talk to the wallets of that dragon ization that's right you have to automate those activities that you do day in and day out from an incident change perspective and that frees up your staff to actually go sit with the business and listen and learn and that's a skill set that you have to teach your IT people but it's an important skill set because if you can put the eye teeth workforce actually with the business they'll hear the problems that they're facing and start to work through that with them and that's a win-win for everybody so I gotta ask you was culturally how did you achieve this of this transformation was it we was a situation where the the IT staff was sort of clamoring for this did you have to drag them kicking and screaming you know changes is often times not easy sometimes it's it's welcome but but often times it's not so how were you able to affect that that change from a cultural standpoint you know that that's a very good question and it wasn't easy I'll be honest with you it's a very difficult transition because you're changing people you know it's not too little thing like that so what you do is you find those things that motivate those right the real geeks of IT what do they want to do they want to automate they want to build those back-end systems so drive them towards that okay so that that gets them motivated and starting from the cultural shift and besides that you know they want to be innovative they really do if you talk to any IT guy they want to be innovative they want to make a difference it's just guiding them along path and it takes a lot of work to change a culture like that but it's so important and without it your IT organizations just aren't going to make it you know you have those people like your database administrators your system administrators that are set and siloed in their ways that's just the old IT you know though they need to go to cloud providers may be in work because you know they're still there still doing that type of activity but your corporate business now it's going to be service providers and that's how you need to make them change and understand that so a couple of questions so one is how are the business people receiving this new you know almost of pairing it sounds like with with IT folks and then to from the IT perspective what do they think about Amazon what do they think about shadow IT you know are they pissed about it are they happy to have something to combat it are they you know we just can't compete there they're working at a different speed than we are you know I this is one of the things I always talk about in my presentations at maritz is we don't I T in the future doesn't compete we complement and that's where you need to do so if you're putting a lot of your servers in the cloud and an Amazon or Azure build a portal and make it easy for your customers to do it too you're complimenting those services that's where I T needs to go is more of a complementing factor and the business are they liking it absolutely because we're solving real business problems they actually are getting there faster than I T right think about it when you go home you fix your own issues you go to the store it's easy its quick right you are driving the customers of I tier driving this cultural shift IT needs to catch up and get get going in this direction today excellent so let me get one more if I know we're getting light on time but I remember one of the highlights of knowledge 13 was the brad vegas movie where I think you hit every single venue up and down the strip from the from the airport to the Grand Canyon so I'm curious have they taken you out for the streets of San Francisco they have not taken me out for the streets of San Francisco but that was quite a life-changing event I tell you we hit every stop in Vegas you name it we were there and luckily they cut you know they didn't show the whole video they cut sections out that maybe was a little too risky we got to find that video we'll put it up on our playlist because it's certainly a must-see TV that cruise around San Francisco of a lot less interesting oh yeah you never know this is early yeah I Lombard Street whoo I hype 4head listen thanks very much for coming Lee anytime great to see you thank you so much I keep right there everybody would react with our next guest we're live from 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