okay we're back this is Dave Volante I'm back I was just meeting with Joe Tucci and Mike cappellas and in an analyst breakout and got some good information I'll share with you a moment this is Silicon angle TVs continuous coverage of EMC world and we're live here in Las Vegas and we have a good friend Dave Cahill from SolidFire on we met SolidFire a year ago at EMC world the CEO Dave Wright popped out of Rackspace conceived and founded SolidFire to be exclusively focused on the cloud service provider market flash all flash array focused on the cloud service provider market like no other company most companies sell flash arrays all flash array sort of broad set of use cases SolidFire is uniquely focusing on the cloud service provider space and we're going to get into that with with David Cahill David welcome to the cube it would be back so you moved to Colorado a lot of interesting personal stuff going on and it's it's it's great to see you you know doing so well personally and it seems like SolidFire is really making some progress you guys are as I said before are uniquely positioned in the cloud service provider space but so why don't we get into it maybe give us the bumper sticker because you could maybe maybe add some color to what I just said yeah and then give us an update on where we're at yeah sure so so guys that are building large-scale multi tenant clouds it's a unique customer set in the last year has done nothing but validate that for us we've been in early access with a handful of partners and our cloud service providers in that regard and continue to expand out that program now and it's it's as evident now as it was then that this customer set has unique challenges around scale around automation around performance and around efficiency that you don't traditionally see in the prize and so we continue to be laser focused on that customer set large-scale multi-tenant clouds and there's plenty of them being built yeah so um so where are you at you guys go through your beta program and yeah so we're heading the crap out of the kick in the beating the crap out of the system we are heads down charging towards full GA later in the year but the purpose of the early access program really is was to get some select cloud service providers to beat the crap out of the system and let them continue to you know evolve the services that they're gonna offer based on the SolidFire system and and make it a better offering GA both from a infrastructure standpoint but also from a services standpoint because you know these guys are advancing the way that we think about the cloud cloud 100 was let's move your data to the cloud cloud 2.0 is let's move your apps to the cloud and so that's a mindset shift which requires evangelism on the part of the cloud service provider to the end customer in addition to the infrastructure right if you if you if you crack the code on the economics of high performance in the cloud you open it up to a much broader application set that's so um so actually Dave I want to see if it call inaudible here so you are you hanging out here you got it something to do after this so we are I'm around okay so Sanjay merchandani was the CIO of EMC we're gonna lose them if we don't bring him on I realized now look at the schedule yeah I take off for 20 minutes everything gets behind so if you wouldn't mind I want to bring take a quick break when I bring Sanjay in interview him and then bring you back and then pick this up with me okay all right so listen keep it right there we're going to come right back with Sanjay merchandani CIO of EMC we're right back you the cube is this conceptual box if you will we bring people inside of the cube and then we share ideas the cube is a comfortable place it's a place where people feel happy and are happy to share their knowledge with the world and we're happy to be ambassadors of that knowledge transfer yeah can I get okay we're back and this is the segment with Sanjay Mirchandani CIO of EMC now Santi has been on the cube a couple of times and really has been leading emcs transformation efforts internally so the company's not just talking about transformation actually transforming I was at the CIO event in October EMC CIO event Sanjay really he noted that event and was the sort of highlight at that show working with a number of EMC CIOs to help them understand how EMC was transforming Sanjay was a really first of all welcome to the cube thank you good to be here and so that was a great event it was the MCS first real effort to bring together CIOs and and they used you EMC usually was a showcase which is smart you guys are doing some internal transformations but there was a lot of interest around what you were doing obviously a lot of talk about infrastructure transformation but also new metrics and things like that what did you take away from that event well you know the whole thing is that people want proof points the whole thing today is about proof points and we've been on this journey first in virtualization then we move that to cloud and we've now incorporated obviously big data into that but nobody builds infrastructure for the sake of infrastructure you want to drive value out of it and we translated value for the business for EMC is a customer internally around agility speed time to market and there's been a shift in the way our internal customers think about things because it's all about hey give it was faster doesn't have to be perfect out of the gate but give it us quicker so we could work together and get it right so we've been we've been we've built out our cloud and now we're working through the layers of in layers on top of that of that cloud of you words are things like platform-as-a-service true business intelligence as a service connectivity between our infrastructure and our legacy applications or if I have the liberty of building our new applications how do you do that and then on top of all of that these devices we're having thousands of these devices a month into the network how do you bring a true user experience and give our users productivity outside of email mm-hmm on this device so that's what we took away that customers were interested in these layers so so when I hear something like VI as a service I think I get excited as a business person I said can I get access to a self-service bi portal right and actually begin to interact with data you know without having to call up you know an army of IT people is that the vision is that you're actually doing that right right and right so talk about the hello yes we should go it's actually very exciting because it's the first layer of value that we're adding directly on top of our cloud infrastructure right so the number one area where you have rogue IT or shadow IT whatever you like to call it is some form of business reporting so users will say IT can't provide me my reports fast enough or IT can't provide me the reports the way I want them or in the format that I want them or as frequently as I want so it's usually shadow IT usually the big percentage of it is there on some kind of reporting system so what we decided to do was we built a cloud infrastructure we've got the capabilities we've got green plumbing plays so what we're doing is we're creating as much of this data that the custom that our internal customers want access to give them one version of the truth so you take away the noise about where is the data and instead spend time on two things helping our internal customers build the skills to do the analytics the way they wanted and give them data scientists as a service as a human service to really enable them because we see the data left to right nobody else does all elements of data within the company mm-hmm so so we give them data scientists as a service and we'll give them the ability will give them skills around tool sets that they want to use a Microsoft reporting tool or SAS or something else on top of the green flap we're enabling the platform we're enabling some competency around the tools when we're enabling data scientists with subject matter expertise in the data and then the and then our internal customers can go off and have a nice day with that information any way they want it so how do you deal with the issue of credentials like who gets to see you which data well obviously we put business rules behind all that so our security officers involved you know and we we are now tearing the data based on access based on you know profiles etc so all of that has to come together so it's not an all-or-nothing formula you know we're bringing best practices into play and and making sure those those are things that you understand how to do in a traditional world right and and if it's rogue IT or shadow IT as you you know that now comes into picture so you have better control over that stuff yeah so um we actually just did you mentioned shadow IT we just did a survey on IT transformation we had one of the questions we asked is you know what percent of your your IT budget or organization's IT budget is managed by a centralized organization and only about when I say only about 38% said 100% yeah so if more than half had some kind of shadow IT and about 20% had a 25% of the spend or more going to shadow I mean and let's be honest it was cloud computing stuff that was in the arsenal of IT for years is out in the open you can get access to the credit card for the same amount of infrastructure and in a drop of a hat that my IT guys need so it's just shadow IT has gone out of the dark corners of the organization right into the open into the plow yeah it's okay you know and so it's a whack-a-mole syndrome yeah so we're saying you got to either embrace it or get out of the way yeah and so you know the pitch that my my leadership team and I are making to our organization is we have to be the brokers of value it's not about authorship it's not about where it was built or where it was written it's about how soon can we add value to the business and we have to be the brokers of value all right and not it's not all about hey if it wasn't written here it isn't good enough for this for this company so yeah you've always been very forward-thinking about that I mean you know shadow IT freaks out some people oh we got to pull it in but you're like okay fine so now I want to tie it into the messaging that you were hearing at EMC world so it's it's IT transformation transform IT or sorry its transformation transform IT business and in yourself yeah we've said okay IT transformation that's about the cloud the new new cloud infrastructure Bob as well the business transformation is about data unlocking data value data value and then self obviously will you make cloud architect maybe that's a piece of what I'm gonna talk about to are so-so is that a reasonable way to look at what the messaging is and how that maps from a practitioners perspective and I'm trying to squint through okay how much of that is marketing and how much is actually implementable so you've talked about the the cloud transformation internally at EMC IT as a service um how about the data piece you talked about bi self-service bi but how about even going beyond that you're actually getting into that point where you're leveraging that yeah are you able to monetize yes great question by the way and there's lots of new answers to that to that question because when you chunk something down to saying you know IT is about you know transforming I tease about infrastructure well transforming IT is about infrastructure self service automation cataloging and creating the capability to present IT as a service did that make sense yeah my goal is to break down the big black box of IT into little box black boxes of IT so customers internally can pick and choose what they want at the price points they want and at the service level they want and I present that up and as much of an automated Service Catalog as I can now that is transforming IT there's a lot of process transformation alongside technology transformation and the you as human transformation which I'll get to in a minute once I built that what do our internal customers want they want big data we talk about big data they want Anytime Anywhere computing capabilities so if you've got that sleek little MacBook Air in front of you or the latest Android device that has showed up at your door or an iOS device they want to be able to compute any way they like on any form factor any screen anywhere we have to render that so for us today Mobile is an opt-out strategy so you ever tell me explicitly that you don't want mobile when I give you a solution it's automatically opt-in yeah two years ago it was the other way round hello I mean okay now how do you do that you do that based on the fact that I've got a cloud infrastructure and I'm building mobile capabilities on top of that bad infrastructure to expose elements of that data manage those devices create that user experience on top of that infrastructure security apps the hole in your login monitoring authentication you know so on and so forth and so how do you do that so that's that's to be transforming you know the business how they use it how they consume it what they want to do with it etc said differently in the first so transformed IT transformed the business is transformed IT was building the factory floor building the production line it was all about IT transform the business is all about the business it's where you're building the widgets you want off that factory floor transform you is what gets the lease attention but it's probably the most pivotal thing in all of this is the bits are gonna be just really cool bits on the on the data center floor unless somebody knows what to do with them and really drive value with it and so for me the focus of my leadership team and myself is not so much just about the architectural roadmap but it's bringing the thousands of people that are involved with IT whether it be our own people or partners that helped us along with us in this journey in a way that they're showing us the way I mean I could come up with s best roadmaps somebody's got to make them happen yeah and I think you're hitting on a really important point you know the people piece we always sort of ignore that we talk about the technology but you know well when you look at the spending that goes on in this industry the vast majority of his own people which you know on the one hand says okay that's important we're investing in our people but we're in a labor-intensive IT economy and and that's stifling innovation you've talked frequently as have your colleagues about the 70/30 mix 70% goes to running the business 30% goes to the innovation but decades of infrastructure investment in silos have really stifled yes innovation and so yes you got attack the processing and the people problem right or else that's not gonna change which slaves to that yeah trust me that's that's what it is yeah and so so that in order for us to move the industry forward Palmer talks about getting deeper into the business integration you can't get there you know if you're you know stuck in all this infrastructure right you sort of bring the first five minutes of my presentation you know and and but that's exactly true you know we've we've you know we say 70% is lights on 30 percent 25 30 percent is innovation it's not even innovation it's just new stuff compared to old stuff yeah it's not me I mean yeah yeah that's that's the binary call you need to get beyond that into true innovation and and you know that that takes a lot of effort and people are so stuck in I gotta get this done I gotta get this out you know I gotta work do this work around I got a triage this problem that the technology and the processes are so institutionally complex the business has gone this way I teeka's continue to run this way because we haven't had time to move this way I think today and I say today I mean the period of the technology that were in is the technology lends itself to agility the business is open to how it needs it and open and and welcoming to how it wants it consumed the technology good enough iterate agile and it's up to IT to adapt at this point to say I'm willing to bring those two things together and really change how I do things for the business that makes sense yeah and well it does especially when the context of the IT services discussion we had earlier and we talked about you said binary you know it's either you're you're maintaining or you're doing something else right I think when organizations if you can present IT as a service can start to really align with their their their objectives of their entry to like a portfolio right run the business grow the business transform the business right and maybe align it to business unit and really start to make IT a much more fundamental part of the strategic plan and the operating plan and that's what excites me listen I had one more question for you I've been hearing a lot about propel I heard first heard a couple months ago we heard more about it last week at sa P sapphire you did yeah okay yep that Jo was just talking about Jo Tucci so you know I know talk about propel yeah I didn't use that word but he talked about OSAP and he said hey it's going live soon I heard it's going live this summer but my fifth great so what's that all about okay so you know as as here's how I like I like to think about it for a few years we were building on infrastructure and it was a drive for efficiency in the business so you it's what I call you know when you start trimming the fat but you got to build back some muscle and the muscle we were trying to build back was a cloud infrastructure and applications that took us into the future right the business wasn't slowing down their plans because I couldn't keep up with them they were going just as fast as they had to go driving shareholder value creating new markets new products getting and doing the things they had to do we were working with 10 12 year-old legacy systems like every other company in our class it grow fast grow globally acquire companies you're just trying to tread water sometimes and just stay afloat we made a conscious call up two and a half years ago to revamp our core systems align a business systems no different than a retail bank pulling out their core retail banking systems and back-end systems and putting in new ones once they've used on a main route for many years very trivial but we just we didn't just stop at the a player we're completely building out this this new line of business solutions on and on what is essentially an EMC VMware RSA and partner friendly technology so it's s ap on the top and the a player Vblock architecture we've used in the spring frameworks gem fire all of the other products you know the middleware products that that allow us to move into the cloud from VMware all built on a V you know running on everything V yeah right so the only thing that we're bringing over over 12 years is data that we're spending a lot of time transforming so they're ready for big data and the database physically everything else is brand-spanking-new so at every layer of that stack we are transforming IT the business and ourselves I mean if you know what I encapsulate the the the the theme for this event we're living it July 5th my team's been working for the last couple of years the last couple of months have been torture as you would imagine anything of the scale you know we closed the quarter we turn on the lights the next morning and we're in a new system and we got to take our users through it so you know the teams in the next you know stellar job but we still have a little bit ahead of us so I said you'll be in the beach but Sanjay's team as the IT I always pulls the shorts we don't get we don't get a long weekend we don't get a very long month actually Dante merchandani one of the best CIOs in the business we had Oliver Bushman on last week and other real innovators I really appreciate names good to be here as always I keep it right there and we'll be right back

okay we're back this is Dave vellante and silicon angles continuous coverage of EMC well we're back with Dave Cahill we had to take a break to interview Sanjay mirchandani and Dave thanks for letting us call inaudible there we were talking about SolidFire you unique focus on cloud service bars you're the only all flash array company focusing exclusively on cloud service providers you were talking about how you're in beta you're working at aha get a lot of good feedback bring us back to that and give us a quick update on that program yeah so we are like I said before we're in early access for the select group of cloud provider customers will continue to beat on the product with them over the course of the next few months and then towards the end of the year will go full GA to the broader market you know when market focus from our standpoint is large-scale multi-tenant clouds and where that's most prevalent today is public clouds large-scale virtual private clouds and private cloud providers yeah so um seen a lot of action in this space obviously across the entire hierarchy right and we saw EMC were here at emc world they just made a big acquisition I don't know how big actually there's a lot of rumors about the number yeah yeah I had rich Napolitano on earlier the acquisitions going to be part of his group and he said we never announced the number you don't know that I'm I said I called 400 the globe did I called 400 the global be fact what they'd say for 20 30 for 30 I had called 400 but I mean you know yeah the mark is frothy but it's a huge market it's got to be 20 plus billion yeah you know of total available market and you guys got to be excited about that on the one hand it's validation on the other hand it might be like oh oh yeah now we got to move yeah you know it when you're at the intersection of flash and cloud your life's noisy to begin with right and so in some ways EMC doesn't do us any favors by paying for 30 million for extreme I oh but but at the end of the day it's an incredible validation of the opportunity and the opportunity here isn't flesh EMC did not pay 430 million for flash they paid for a next gen art architecture capable of scaling out on a new medium and that's the difference I mean you can look at this market and it is it is so noisy and everyone's raising their hand and throwing I ops in a box and saying I'm in business but the trick is you know when you're architecting for scale it's a totally different set of design constraints and I think what you saw with emc is they're so close to the flash market that they were able to see that hey you know what we cannot retrofit an existing architecture into this problem we need to go get our own you know extreme IO slot it in they grabbed it early enough they can influence development they can spread it across their lineup I mean I think it's a great move but for us it's an incredible validation of the challenge that we're trying to solve every day which is scale out next-gen scale-out storage systems with flash as a means to an end but but flash is just the beginning of the story otherwise you're dead in this space so you're saying that the EMC moved to acquire extremely Oh was an admission that can do that the traditional controller-based architectures aren't going to cut it in this market space and so they had that piece with the enterprise flash drives and they had a PCI you know connect with VF cash and is a big opportunity in between that they were missing well I mean you know they have a whole portfolio right they called it baskin-robbins you could take you take VF cash you take thunder whenever it comes out you take extreme I oh and then you take their legacy and then you let you know emc Salesforce as long as you position it accordingly have at it but the trick is you know when do those flavors start dripping into each other right and as long as you segment them based on workload of customers that appropriately that's fine this is the key Dave the software and the management capabilities around that infrastructure and that's you know listen the flash is a is a commodity component of the architecture you know we're in and to me it is it is just the beginning of the innovation you take this hardware without the ability to scale without efficiency without performance control without complete automation you can't drive the economics necessary to take this flash and you know let's go at two for two or three percent of the market today with super high performance I ops to open up the rest of that market you need software and you've got to crack the code on the economics of efficiency automation performance control to open up that market much wider than just that two to three percent of the workloads that needs screaming fast I ops you know last year at vmworld we talked to some of your early customers and one of the things that we uncovered in those discussions was their different from the traditional enterprise guys right there thinking about running a business we were just talking to Sanjay Mirchandani about transforming IT go do an IT as a service and I'll tell you he's way ahead of the average I teashop most I tea shops are just starting to think about this transformation where's cloud service providers that's their business yeah and so one of things they said to us was look we're looking we're interested in the capability that companies like SolidFire bring because we can add value on top of that or we can sell that value to our customers right so it's not a cost plus model it's a hey this is something you need and you'll pay through the nose for because it's quality of service around applications is that is that bearing out to be true in your early beta trials and I mean this the cloud provider market is survival of the fittest right the biggest difference at the highest level is you know you've got guys traditional enterprises where I t is a cost center for this cloud service provider set I t is a profit center right and these guys look at it in terms of quality of service cost of service or breadth of service and if they're not improving or differentiating relative to the gorillas in the space on you know quality of service cost of service of breathless service that they're going to be out of business and that's the mandate that they have and so it is totally about delivering a service to their end customers not just turning a bunch of knobs to a captive user base which is what traditional enterprise IT is about ok so I'll give you the last word you know what's next what should we be looking for from from from SolidFire over the next six months yeah so from a SolidFire perspective and I think the most interesting thing for us is is just heads down and development right now so over the next six months we're going to continue to push forward with the early access customers let them prove out the solution and let them start to charge to market with their respective services and also I think you're going to see the market developed as well where cloud providers realize that it's not just about hosting data they need to host applications they need to compete on breadth of services relative to Amazon and for that that requires different mindsets and requires different architectures you think we're going to see you emerge this year a new definition of what's what was traditionally known as tier 1 storage you know the emc v-max the the IBM ds8000 HDS I mean those are it goes guys are the only tier 1 players you think that we're going to see a new definition there that's around multi-tenant around supporting horizontal applications across the port so I don't as much look at it in terms of tears I always break the market into either workloads or customer sets and I think of or than anything else you're going to see this customer set continue to emerge that cares about large-scale multi-tenant cloud environments yeah when I say to I don't mean tiering I don't confuse you with that I mean do you mean the last you're right versus module yeah ok ok all right ya know in that sense I do think that yes there is a new class of guys going at that performance tier I mean that's another thing that emc did with extreme IO is you know look at the Prophet pool that was at risk where is the MC you know that sin is flowering and market right edge end of the day 430 million is because of barges nothing yeah relative to the opportunity there Dave Cahill hey thanks very much great to see you man right that's all a good trip back keep it right there with right back

>>From Las Vegas, it's the cube cuddle EMC world 2016, brought to you by EMC. Now your host, John furrier. Welcome >>Back everyone. We are here, live in Las Vegas for EMC world 2012. I'm John Ferrari, the founder of Silicon angle and host of the cube. And we are extracting the signal from noise. And one of our traditions at EMC world is to do a conversation and panel discussion around women of the world with Stella Lowe, who is VP of global communications for EMC and Susan Carter, Nico, who's the founder and CEO of authentic leadership. Stella. Every year we do this as one of my favorite things. As we wrap up EMC world, soon, it may be Dell world or Dell EMC, whatever that kind of turns into. Yeah, I wish you can't comment. Cause your communications is, is to talk about kind of the human side of what's going on. And the theme for EMC was modernization of enterprise, you know, infrastructure, speed, performance, scalability. And you've taken this theme this year with women of the world to modernizing your career in an era of change. And tell me about what that was this year. >>Yeah, absolutely. John. So yeah, we were in this, um, tech industry is changing all the time, but right now we're in this kind of unprecedented change. Um, you, this, this is gonna be a lot of consolidations is the thinking over the next two years, a lot of people find a lot of companies finding their dance partners. In some ways we've already found our dance partner, which is Dell, but there's gonna be a lot of that going on. And um, and there's definitely a lot of change happening here at EMC. So we wanted to make sure that we were focusing on how to own modernize and direct your career within this sea of tremendous James. >>So Susan, I want to get your take on this because we are living as the theme of the show is, is a transformation happening, which means there are certainly change and there's big bets being made in the business that requires people process and technology transformation. People is a big part of it. And people have to be bold. There's some gambling, there's some bets and with that will come maybe some missteps or some failures and how you can overcome that will define ultimately your success to take maybe little failures, not big failures, but like, but this is part of the evolution of innovation. How does that affect people, specifically women, as they're in this now converge workforce, male, men and women coming together. What's your thoughts on this? >>Well, men and women alike change is hard, right? So as industries converge as merchants and acquisitions happen, you know, the industry itself is in such a massive transformation mode. It's requiring people of all of all levels and in all fields, but particularly in the world of technology to completely redefine their skillsets, their relevance, the way they're going to actually help sort of step into this new era of digital technology. So it's causing, you know, ripple effects of reinvention and change all over the place. You know, we all to change as human beings at a very personal level. What does it mean for me? And so a big part of what we discussed today at the conference was just, how do you sort of lean into that change and how can you begin to look at your own potential and your own skillsets from, with a different lens? >>You know, um, we tend to box ourselves in as far as our potential goes and we say, okay, I've been in this functional area for all of my career. So I guess my opportunities sit squarely in this box. And we talked a lot about the value of sort of reinventing and taking a hard look at our transferable skill sets. So the attributes that we have as, as human beings that could let be leveraged into other roles or expanded roles and the skill sets that have made us so successful in what we're doing today. So how might we bust that open and find new opportunities in this world of change? And it's pretty important that we do it now. I mean, there was a, um, it was announced just a few days ago that in 2015, there were 359 new CEOs announced, uh, in the top two and a half thousand companies around the world. Only 10 were women, John 10, 10 out of 359. It's shocking. So if we're going to change, reverse that trend, we've got to start reversing that rate from that >>Consistent though across all industry, even venture capital, which has really highlighted in Silicon Valley where we live and that's obvious a male dominate, but now there's no women VCs. Now cowboy ventures is a bunch of them that are coming together and Hey, we can play ball each other. >>What does it surprise you that there's less women learning about tech now learning, you know, in tech education now than there was in the eighties? I mean, so, so we've already got to grapple with this and, and, and change the course of this. And, and women have got to start taking responsibility for their own careers and their own direction. >>What are some of the stories that you've heard this week at, at your event, as you guys talk with each other, what are some of the common patterns and stories that you're hearing? >>So we're certainly hearing from the women in the room, but they see that the impending change as exciting as an opportunity, but they're also, there's also some things anxiety around that change. There's definitely fear there and that's what we're seeing. Um, you know, and, and, um, you know, they need, people need to take that fair and use it as a catalyst for positive things. Right, right. I mean, 10 people tend to shut down when they're in environments of fear. And one of the things that we talked a great deal about was how do you sort of turn that around and, um, use that as a catalyst to take stock in not only sort of what your inherent capabilities are, but your vision for your life and the values that you hold dear and say, okay. So if my job serves my life, then what is my end game and what steps in choices can I make, you know, putting myself back in the driver's seat versus letting this this change. That's sort of at the, both of my macro level and the micro level, like sweet meander and, and, and create a, of a victim mentality. We talked a lot about sort of that empowerment and the accountability to sort of take charge of your own desks. >>It's interesting. You mentioned leaned in earlier. So Sheryl Sandberg's in my community in Palo Alto, Facebook friend, you know, where I'm involved a lot with some Facebook stuff. And I put, I've been following her lean in and I want to bring this up is you mentioned the word fearless. Um, you know, I've been called fearless, fearless. That's a guy thing, right. Guys can be fearless. Is it okay for women to be fearless and is lean in a fearless kind of vibes? It's not so much, I don't wanna get semantically tied on views, but this brings up a point that people get stuck on the semantics, but that kind of is a bias thing. Be more fearless and you'll get ahead versus lean in is a guess could be construed as a female version of fearless, the words matter. But at the same day, how does a woman become fearless? It doesn't matter. Yeah. >>So the other speaker that we had on the panel today, we were very lucky also to have Rashma, um, uh Rashma Sudani uh, and she, she, um, has the company, uh, founded the company, girls who code, and she says that women were brought up to be, uh, perfect. Whereas boys were brought up to be brave. So it's okay for a boy to climb a tree and go to the top. But with girls were like, no, no, sit in the chair, look pretty, be nice, you know, but be perfect. Um, and so women are very scared to go into areas that don't know because they're worried about making mistakes. And what we were trying to get over today was imperfection is okay, it's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to, you know, and you've got to get kind of get over that fear to do that. >>And it's the attributes Susan. So a woman and a man, they have different attributes. So maybe fearless my, Oh, he's feeling at the top of the tree, but every attribute in a diverse environment can contribute to a common outcome that makes it better. I mean, that's kind of the theme that I'm seeing. >>It's true. Um, fearlessness in you say words matter, uh, concept is kind of the same. We talked a lot about self con self-confidence and the, the contrast in the sexes, uh, when it comes to self-confidence and then so many women seem to sort of stop short of having that self confidence to step out and you say, be fearless to take risk to just sort of seize that moment and say, you know, what, if it doesn't work out, I can choose again. There's we just seem to stop short of being able to do that, where guys seem to be a little bit more comfortable. And part of it is the way we're raised, you know, women to be perfect. And we tend to be very, very quiet about those failures. And so it kind of sends that message. Like, I really need to set a stay away from those arenas where I just, I might not be a stunning success. >>So there was some discussion around men versus women in the imposter syndrome, which tends to afflict a lot of women, particularly women in business, where we kind of doubt our own worth as, as a leader, as a professional. And there's this fear that, you know, at some point we're going to be found out that we're really not as good as others around us think we are. And that drives a certain kind of behavior in the workplace. So, you know, um, workaholism, perfectionism, procrastination, just so afraid to make a mistake and be found out. So, you know, that seems to be, um, more characteristic of females than males. Um, there are just a lot of, there's a lot of complexity around >>The guys that are faking it, that good will be found out. It may be, maybe there's a thing there, but modernizing your career though. That's the theme? What is the pattern that, what does that mean? I mean, how, how do you talk to that? Because everyone wants, I mean, who doesn't want to be modern, right. And we're in the modern era, we want to be happy. We want to be cool when advance, okay. Advancement means you're climbing the ladder or you're, you're trying something new, which means you will fall and stumble. We all stumble when we learn is that part of the modernization is dealing with the environment and the change and the failure. >>Yeah, it is. In fact, um, the first thing that we talked about was the need to be incredibly strategic in this environment, we're business people. And when facing any business challenge, you tend to do scenario planning, right? And you say, well, if this happens, here's my strategy. Uh, if that happens, here's my strategy. So you say worst case, best case likely case. And, and when you start to develop strategies around how you're going to navigate those things, it gives you additional power and confidence to sort of move forward in your redefinition. So that's sort of that the first step in modernizing your career, we also talked a bit a bit ago about, um, understanding where you might have some self limiting beliefs about where you might play, you know, the, what arena, where you might, you might sit and so starting to sort of broaden your horizons. >>Um, yeah, definitely. I mean, uh, women will look at a job spec, um, and have a completely different perspective from men. So men will look at it and they'll say, well, I can do about 38% of this. So I'm going to go for this job. Um, women will look at it unless they can do 85% of it, or they've done that they have experienced in 85% of it. They won't even go for the job. So we have to start to really broaden our view of the types of jobs we can go for the types of opportunities we can go for and start to think more, well, much more openly. So be >>More aggressive on the job. Applicants was one was >>One. Yeah. Broaden your horizons. Think about this, the transferable skill sets that you have, that you can take into other areas. And, and don't be, don't be fair fearful of things that you haven't done before. >>So I had a public failure startup that was very funded and then the public failure and it's traumatizing. And I dealt with that and you know, this whole failure is rewarded in Silicon Valley. That's BS, in my opinion, people tolerate failure, but they loved the comeback. That's part of learning is coming back. And, but, you know, and so I had to deal with that until I was in my own way as a guy, but there's a post in Silicon Valley going around today, around a woman who failed. And she didn't know whether she should be vulnerable or just be that what'd you call it the imposter syndrome, fake it till you make it. And she was saying, no, I want to be vulnerable. Because what she found is by being vulnerable, people were helping her. So that brings up the concept of vulnerability, male, female, and two in the modern world. We have social networks now. So lean is a great example of some gravity around peer groups. Can you guys talk about that? Does that come up at all on your radar, in terms of the dynamic there around men versus women being vulnerable versus being strong and also the notion of networks and how that could be? >>Well, I think vulnerability is often tied to shame and that fear of shame causes people to hold back in sharing their real stories. You said something very important and that's that people care about what you've learned along the way. They don't necessarily care about what, you know, they care about what you've learned. Most people are comfortable talking about what they've learned when they're on the other side of that. So it's not in the, in the middle of that trail here, when you are just feeling horrible, you're feeling horrible. You're feeling like a failure. You're feeling embarrassed, you're feeling shame. So the ability to kind of step up to that is it's a tall order. Now you talked about social networks in this environment of social media. Authenticity is so important, right? So it's that happy balance. If you're not all that comfortable with being completely naked in that vulnerability, maybe there's a happy medium where you can share some of the challenges and things that you've been facing while not necessarily going all the way down to the, you know, to the bare nub of it. Um, I think we're right. >>So authenticity will track the right alchemy of, of help or it relationship as a way to signal to people. I mean, I guess, and that's just me. I love this concept. I mean, I feel like I should get you guys with my life coach. This is my lifestyle. So this is the next one. So, okay. So that's cool. I love that theme. I love this topic because that really helps you get through to the other side and gain to the other side. You're on the comeback. That's a learning what you've learned and applying what you've learned is a growth mindset. Now there's a lot of women, my age, I'm 50 that I've grown through the ranks and they get up to the top. And you mentioned the numbers, aren't that significant on the seat level of women it's lonely yet. They're being asked to be mentors down to the new generation of ladies coming up or women. And, but they're lonely at the top. How do they deal with that? As you're moving closer to the top, have they talked about that >>Only at the top? And I would like still, I was a senior executive at a big company and found that loneliness to be quite palpable. Right? Um, it's part of the choice you make to be in that arena, stepping up to that position of leadership. It often means that you're distancing yourself. You're being more, you're more concerned with being respected than you are being liked. And you know, there there's a, there's a new game, right? New parameters around your relationships like CEO's, um, who find solace in their peer relationships. I think that same goes for women. You know, you, you need to actively cultivate your formal and informal networks and they may be with, with, uh, peers outside of your company, outside of your functional area. Those relationships though are so important because you can become isolated and insulated. Um, people may not always come to you with the, with the truth. >>And so, you know, making sure that you keep those lines of communication and mutual support open is really pivotal. Now you mentioned mentorship. Um, I think it is incumbent on senior women to reach down and find opportunities to mentor other women and sponsor other women. You know, there's mentorship and sponsorship, and both are crucial in terms of sort of direct feedback and developmental advice on the mentorship side, but then sponsorship literally actively opening doors for other women and, and reaching a hand and helping them come up to because that's often where we find a gap. People think I had to claw my way up. It was a lot of work. So I'm just going to sort of protect myself and hang out and let everybody else kind of go on their own journey. We talked a lot today about the need to sort of reach down and help other women. >>So the takeaway there is develop your formal informal networks. That's a foundational really critical linchpin to the whole success. Um, what about now, as we look at the progression going forward, um, the skill development, you mentioned the job applications, a lot of these jobs that are going to come with the next industrial revolution as Michael Dell was pointing out, don't even exist today. So there might be an opportunity here as we look to the future. Did that come up at all on the radar of your sessions? >>Well, we talked, I think it comes back to really transferable skill sets. You need to take a look at what, what you do and who you are, bring it up a level because I got to tell you if you can manage well in ambiguity, if you can lead and motivate people. I mean, if you, there, there are certain attributes that, that pick the job. Yeah. If you have those, if you have those attributes and those skills, you can learn a discipline, but those inherent leadership skills are going to pay off the big time as this industry continues to redefine. And as you say, jobs that we don't even know exist yet, suddenly come onto the table. >>What surprises you the most in this, in the conversation around modernization, as you talk with folks out there, what's a trend that surprised you that you kind of knew about, but, Oh my God, this is really more acute or more explosive than in a good way, or in bad way. Anything you can share, like the literally like, wow, this is really more pressing than I thought, or this is actually more amazing than I thought. >>Yeah. Um, one of the things the Rushman talked about is women supporting other women. I mean, sometimes we are the worst critics of other women and, uh, you know, female bosses can be harder on female employees and so on. And I think there's got to be that kind of sisterhood, um, uh, around, uh, all of us have been bring women up as, as, um, Susan has said, support other women, uh, make sure that you are their back and they are watching yours. And, uh, it will help with the loneliness factor, but it also helps to, to bring women forward. And I think that's always a surprise to me that women don't want to do that. And they, and they don't want to get involved in that. We should be paying that back and paying it. >>So is there anything that surprised you looking back at, and then the constitution here? >>I think I would echo what Stella said. It's, um, it's important to understand the role you may be playing in the plight that faces you. So, you know, we talk about women sometimes being their own worst enemy and trying to, to again, modernize and redefine what that relationship looks like and what that success looks like and how accountable we each are for, you know, moving forward and pushing the envelope. >>Okay. Final question. If you guys could each answer, this would be great. What advice would you give the people watching here live, and then on demand things that they could do to modernize their career in this change, uh, advice that you can surface and share insight around their opportunity, things that they could do differently or new, or, >>Yeah, I'll let Susan have the last word on this. Cause you'll have some fabulous advice, but you know, one thing I would say is, is, uh, be comfortable in your imperfection. You don't have to be perfect. You'd go for it, widen your spear of opportunities and, uh, you know, Matt Mo uh, Charlotte, your way and, and dream bigger and he dreamed bigger. You might, you know, you'll get somewhere bigger. Very good. Um, I would say first and foremost, one of the best things that you can do is challenge some of the beliefs that you might hold about what your potential next steps or career path might be, um, get clear on what your end game is for your life and what your values are, because that becomes a very important lens through which to view future opportunity, get, get really clear that you can always choose. >>Again. I think this fear of making a mistake and that you talked about fearlessness, um, you know, I think people tend to, to limit their opportunities because they think, wow, if I make this choice and it's mistake, then I'm done, but you can just turn around and make a new choice and begin again. And there are limitless choices that you can make. So a lot of this I find is mindset related. You know, we're heading into a, we are in a highly turbulent time. It's going to continue. We need to be agile in our thinking part of that is getting grounded in who we are and what are our potential could be getting clear on what we want because our jobs serve our life, not the, not the other way around and really sort of getting into the driver's seat versus letting whatever the change is, whether it's up here, the industry consolidation level, or whether it's down in, whether we're in the middle of a merger, or we've just gotten a new boss that we don't particularly click with, we can default to a victim mentality. So part of this is just saying, you know what, I am going to pick this thing up and I am going to manage to the change myself >>And we are living in a world where there's great opportunities, women of the world. Great segment. Thank you so much, Stella. We thank you so much, Susan, really great to have you guys sharing your insight here on the cube. Um, congratulations again, always my favorite conversation. I learned a lot, um, and I love, I feel like I'm learning so much and this is a world of diversity and it's great. And the outcome is diversity is fantastic. And I think that's what everyone's seeing. So congratulations on the great work. This is the queue here at EMC world 2016. I'm John for a, you're watching the cube >>Looking back at the history of it.