>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Magento Imagine 2019. (fizzing) (upbeat music) Brought to you by Adobe. >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Jeff Frick at Imagine 2019, the Wynn, Las Vegas, with about 3500 customers, lots of partners, lots of developers, a lot of energy here. And speaking of energy, we have Jason Woosley, VP of commerce at Adobe. Jason, you came onto the stage this morning from the clouds suspended. Talk about energy. >> It was a lot of energy, and there was a message behind it, right? (clears throat) I mean we really are talking about our Cloud penetration and how that is the future. So, you know, I got to do something really cool and check something off the bucket list where I actually did descend from the sky onto the stage. It was the best Imagine entrance I've ever done (Lisa laughing) and really does talk about, you know, how important our Cloud Strategy is. Thanks for having me on, by the way. >> Absolutely. >> Our pleasure. >> So, a lot of energy here, again, community, community, community. We go to so many shows, so many people are desperate to engage developers. And you guys have that in your core. It's been there from day one. Continues to be such an important part of who you are as well as the road forward. >> It's the reason for why we are where we are today. I mean bar none, right? Our community, this eco system. And it's not something you can buy. It's not something you can even intentionally build. You have to nurture, you have to create a platform that speaks to a large audience, and then you've just got to make sure that you're treating those developers and your partners really, really well, empowering them to really differentiate that experience at the last mile. And, you know, it's a flywheel effect. You end up with this incredible community that's anxious to contribute back into our code base and they have made, what you see at this conference is a result of that community. It's not anything that Magento could do. It's not anything that Adobe could do. It is just something that has to organically happen, and then you have to nurture the heck out of it. And that, that's really what we've done. >> And this is a community that you say has grown organically to several hundred thousand people who I feel like to say that they're influential to Magento, the technologies is actually an understatement with how much, how, again, I think influential's the wrong word. They're stronger than that. >> They're absolutely core to it, right? I mean they're an extension of our development methodology. You know, I like to think about, you know, I run engineering as part of my organization, and everybody in my group is customer-facing. Just like everybody in out community is customer-facing. And so we've tried to tear down the walls that separate our community members from our internal core engineers, because it creates this incredible diversity of perspective that you can't find anywhere else. I mean, no matter how much I invest in broadly diverse engineering teams across the globe, 300,000 engineers, they call themselves Magento developers, don't take a paycheck from Adobe but contribute back to our code base, influence our road map and really show us the way. It's an incredible phenomenon. >> In the last year since the announcement of the Adobe acquisition and the actual completion of that six, seven months ago, how has that community reacted, strengthened? What have been some of your surprising observations about the community's strength? >> It is surprising, and I'll tell you why. I think we came into the acquisition with a lot of apprehension, right. There was a concern that, you know, Adobe's too big. They're too corporate. They don't really love Open Source. All untrue, right? Adobe has incredible Open Source initiatives already inside, but you don't here a lot about it. And so, our community, I think, is it's a little bit concerned about, you know, does the level of investment go down? Does all of our ability to promote that product, does that, do we start to back off of that? And of course, we have not done that at all, and in fact, what we've seen is that our community loves the Adobe acquisition. They see opportunity just as clearly as we do. We have more than triple-digit growth in the number of community contributions coming in to us since the acquisition last year. It is a clear sign that the ecosystem is fully on board with where we're going. >> Right. Well clearly the Adobe Suite provides so much gunpowder to power the commerce that's been at the core of Magento from the beginning. I mean it almost begs the question, why didn't this happen a long, long time ago? >> I think there's something to be said about that, and, but you know what, it took Adobe a while. They picked the right platform. We're very confident of that, and, you know, their investment in community is actually paying off on the Adobe side, right. When you think about digital experience products, they (Adobe) are now more active than ever in open source projects. We've got, you know, folks from Adobe Experience Manager that are writing code and contributing to Magento, which is, it's absolutely terrific. And they're now talking about how do we get the ability to kind of create that contribution mechanism and at least create a platform concept where, you know, everybody plays. It's an equal playing field. You can serve us small, you can serve us large. And it just brings everybody together to solve these common, complex problems that are joint merchant's face. >> I don't know how many times you've been on stage in the last few days but, a couple. But one of the things you really, you know, (pounding) you didn't pound on the table but you basically pounded on the table, is that we are still, totally, 100% behind SMB. >> Jason: Absolutely. >> It's our core. We're not giving that up. >> We built this market together, right. This was what made Magento what it is. It's where we play the best. We know it better than anybody else in the industry, and we're not retreating. We're doubling down. We've got ground to take in the mid-market, and I can't wait to do it. >> Right, but what's wild is you're enabling the mid-market, to compete with the tools of the big guys. So, announcements are on the integration with Amazon, announcements are on integration with Google. So it's kind of an interesting place for small retailers, small merchants. They've got to compete in this world, so you're really giving 'em an aid, an opportunity to both play in what might be a big competitor as well as leverage that ecosystem and assets as well as doing it within their own brick and mortar or their own site . >> And that's a terrific point. I think one of the reasons we do that is we've seen consumer expectations rising through the roof, right. I mean, everything from, you know, fast shipping is now one-day. And it wasn't very long ago that fast shipping, if you could get it within a week, that was pretty darn quick. >> Jeff: Right. >> But now fast shipping is one day, and that's across the board. Consumers are expecting frictionless payment. They're expecting, you know, buy online, pick up in-store, omni-channel capabilities. Really all of these capabilities. And a consumer, a shopper, really doesn't care whether you're big or small. What they care about is the experience that the consume when they interact with your brand. And so, bringing the tools of the enterprise to the mid-market allows them to compete on a more level playing field, and that's really where you generate all those great innovation. And that's where you see, you know, these smaller merchants that are really able to, you know, drive into something that, you know, may not have been a core target for some of the larger enterprises, but they find an niche and are able to deliver, but they have the same personalization needs. They have the same logistics needs. All of that has not changed just because they're a smaller organization. And so it's really on us to be able to provide them the tooling and the access to the capabilities that let them compete with the larger merchants. >> No, 'cause you're right. As consumers, which we are every day, we don't care if they're a big or small company, or what technologies that, well, no we do care, to a degree, that we can start something from a mobile phone, have a great seamless experience >> Jason: Yep. >> that's not gonna cause me to churn, because I'm not going to be able to find what I want. I want it to be personalized. I want them to know enough about me in a non-creepy way, as you say. >> That's right. If it's good, it's magic. (Lisa laughing) If it's bad, it's creepy! >> Right, regardless of-- >> That's fair. >> That's for recommendation engines. >> Yeah, no, that's fair. >> And expect that they have what I want. But also what you're doing now is giving these SMBs, these smaller organizations, the ability to harness this sort of symbiotic data power between Adobe and Magento for advertising, analytics, marketing, commerce, to be able to have that wealth of knowledge to make that experience exactly what that consumer expects. >> Exactly right. I mean it's about bringing behavioral data and the transactional data together to really get a 360 degree view of individual customers. And guess what? There's too much raw data there for Excel to ever be able to tell you anything. You've got to rely on things like artificial intelligence and machine learning so that things like Adobe Sensei to really derive insight out of that mass set of data. But that's the way you create those personalized experiences. You have to employ those techniques to get there. >> Right, I just wanted to unpack the Sensei down-spin a little bit, 'cause I think that's really interesting. You know, AI's been a great buzzword. We see it in a lot of places. You know, our Google email now automatically figures out what we want to reply to our email. But it's the integration of AI in applications is where we're really starting to see it come to market early, and this is a great example of, you know, using the Adobe AI inside of Sensei, on specific parts of the application to deliver a better application, a better consumer experience. >> And we've got a great roadmap for rolling out Artificial Intelligence capabilities to Magento commerce. It's one of the largest value adds that we'll do over the next 12 months, is really bringing those capabilities around recommendations, around experience personalization and experience targeting. Around A/B testing. And then you think a little bit into the future, and suddenly you're looking at an AI that can give you pricing recommendations and campaign recommendations, and, you know, that is a, that's a world we cannot wait to really explore fully in the commerce world, because I think that those are the tools, you know Amazon applies a lot of dynamic pricing techniques right now. It's a really expensive process. I don't know a lot of small merchants that have access to the tools to do that. We're bringing those tools to small merchants, and that's gonna change the game fundamentally, I believe. >> And a way that they can do it, almost themselves, rather than having to have a team of resources, which a small business doesn't have. >> And that is the name of the game for small business. You can't require them to have a data science team. You can't require them to have an IT staff or a Web development team. You gotta give them everything they need so that they can focus on retail, what they know best, merchandising to their customers and, you know, managing their inventory, driving up the correct margins and then making sure that they're able to grow the lifetime value of their customers, right? That's the Holy Grail for retail is when you can actually optimize against lifetime value. Because it's the number one thing that all merchants are chasing. >> Yeah, 'cause you had the guy on the keynote yesterday. I'm not in the demographic. I'm trying to remember the name of the-- >> Oh, Troy, Troy Brown from Zumiez! >> From Zumiez, yeah. >> Yeah. >> I thought it was just really interesting, you know, kind of re-thinking retail, right? Retail is not dead, but it's different, and you have to be different. And really to see how they have kind of taken their concept I thought it was pretty interesting, especially around the fact that he has no more fulfillment centers, he said. But basically, they're fulfilling from the store. They want to engage you in the store. It's a convenient thing. Especially now we see Amazon packages are all gettin' stolen off of doorsteps. But, you know, enabling them to be creative around their customer engagement, not necessarily worry about how to run a bunch of A/B tests. They let you do that complicated stuff. >> Let us take on all of the complexity, and then they can actually benefit from the insights derived from that. And what Zumiez have done, it's a phenomenal story, right. I mean, you're going away from this centralized warehouse concept, to really turning all of their stores into distribution centers, right? 704 or so, brick and mortar-strong where, you know, they now have merchandise close to their consumers. They have, you know, the ability to do showcasing, buy online, pick-up in store, all of the omni-channel techniques that are grabbing so much traction right now. And Zumiez has really capitalized. >> Jeff: Right. >> They've done a terrific job, and it's great seeing it come from these really innovative retailers, right? I mean, that show last night with Zumiez was absolutely, you know, fantastic. Their culture is super unique, highly energetic, but they're driving technology forward in a way that you might not expect from a skateboard apparel shop. >> Right, well, they're making Champion cool again. It came out of the Champion, and it was in the demo. I'm like, I didn't know Champion was a cool brand. >> Apparently, it is cool now. >> Jeff: It's cool now. >> You and I are both out of that demographic, (Jeff laughing) but it is a very good story. >> One of the things that we're hearing and seeing is that we talked about personalization and that this expectation, that as consumers, we bring to everything we buy, whatever it happens to be, but also, this sort of, looking at Amazon as an example, of going to brick and mortar from purely online, the acquisition of Whole Foods, people still wanting to have that human interaction. We talk about it all the time when we talk about AI, is that pretty much the common thread is yes, AI, and maybe yes, online to a degree, and then there's still that need and that demand for that personal face-to-face or maybe voice-to-voice interaction. >> Yeah, well, you know, its really for me, it's about taking that brand, you know, experience and making sure that it's resonating across all of your digital properties as well as all of the physical properties, right. It is about really leveraging. My brand experience is consistent across every place that I come encounter my customers, and I'm ready to transact anytime my customers are ready to transact. And when, you know, talking about Amazon. we've announced some really cool stuff this Ad Imagine on Amazon, a partnership. where Amazon sellers can now have a branded storefront on Magento. This is allowing folks that have done a terrific job selling in the market place, where you don't have a lot of opportunity for experience differentiation on the amazon.com site. >> Lisa: Right. >> And it's a terrific marketplace. More than 50% of product searches are starting on Amazon now. So it's a reality that retailers need to find a way to come to grips with. >> Jeff: Right. >> And what I'm really excited about is that those merchants that are doing really well on Amazon now have a new channel where they can create these branded experiences and really start differentiating themselves from their competitors. It's going to be a terrific story. It's Branded Storefronts for Amazon Sellers is the name of the offering. And its going to change the game for folks that have been exclusively Amazon, maybe thinking its too hard to go get an online presence that actually represents my brand. Now its a piece of cake. They've got a clean path to get there, and the capabilities go both ways, right? We also announced Amazon sales channel for Magento commerce that allows you as a branded merchant, to go and participate on the Amazon Marketplace and have full control over your inventory, your orders and all of your catalog. >> It's so funny, you know, we talk about experience but so much of retail execution is actually inventory execution, right? >> [Jason} That's Right. >> It's inventory management. That's where all your money sits. You can get it real upside down really quickly if you're not managing your inventory. And if you don't have the right amount of inventory, especially as you say with same-day delivery now being an expected behavior. And so to add the sophisticated tools on the back and to manage that inventory across that broad, kind of distribution plane, if you will, with all these different points of engagement is so critical to these guys to have any type of chance of success. >> Yeah, it is. It's absolutely critical, and we've also got a Magento order management product that specializes in sort of global inventory control. We've made terrific investments there to bring new capabilities to make sure that those omni-channel aspirations are not something that a merchant has to go invest a whole lot of money and change in their systems. I think it is interesting to think about when you talk about how B2C is really bleeding into B2B, right. As supply chain management, you know, 70% of our B2C merchants, self-described, actually engaged in B2B workflows, and almost all of our B2B-only merchants are really looking at how do I go B2B to C? >> Jess: Right. >> So there's this really great platform play happening, and the fact that Magento commerce and Adobe commerce Cloud can serve us B2B and B2C and all the hybrids in-between really puts us in a differentiated position and helps merchants not have to go invest in multiple platform, multiple maintainability and then find some way to reconcile the inventory between the two. >> Right, and we had a quote earlier today. I can't remember who said it, but I thought it was great where, you know, no longer is the actual transaction the destination. Right, but now you're bringing the transaction to, you know, kind of the journey. It's a very different way to think about a traditional funnel. It isn't the traditional funnel that you work your way down to the end. Now you're inserting commerce opportunities, >> Jason: Yep. >> engagement opportunities all along kind of this content flow. >> We kind of teased ourselves, right, We kinda lied to ourselves and said that, you know, this is a linear journey. And we've all bought into it, right. You know all the steps, right. It's a discovery, awareness, I mean all the way to post-purchase. Its not linear. People move in and out of each of those sections, and so being able to transact where the customer is ready to transact is critically important >> Jeff: Right. >> and then understanding that the post-sale service is the key to lifetime value. That's the other major learning that we're trying to take away from this. And it's why it's important to be at every point your customer is. >> Yeah, it's interesting, 'cause especially with these things, because you don't sit down to work on your phone like we sat down to work at these things. >> Jason: That's right. >> And so your attention, >> Jason: works coming to you. >> it's coming to you, and its coming in little bits. Oh, and by the way, there's a whole bunch of notifications coming on that can pull you away. >> Jason: Yeah. >> So they're very different challenges in terms of actual engagement when this is the primary vehicle. >> And increasingly, it is the primary vehicle, right? >> Jess: Absolutely. >> More than 50% of traffic to retail, e-commerce site is generated from a mobile phone, and there are emerging markets where that is the only internet-connected device, and so it's the standard. You absolutely have to take mobile very seriously. There's a great set of technologies coming online to help us get there. It's called Progressive Web Application. It's going to change the game on how mobile is treated as a device, and in fact, it gets rid of the need for discrete native applications. So instead of having an IOS app, an Android app, a desktop storefront, a mobile storefront and maybe a tablet storefront, plus your online brick and mortar, now you can actually say, my digital properties are serviced by one set of technology. And that way, when I make a change to one, it shows up in everything. I don't have all these difference code bases to maintain. It's a total cost of ownership, and really, a time-to-market play >> Lisa: I was gonna say, >> across the board. >> faster time-to market for sure. >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> With far less resources. >> Well, and bringing it so that you really have to invest in allowing your merchandisers to merchandise on your digital properties, right? If there is an engineer sitting between your merchandiser and the customer, that time lag and even just trying to get it done, there's so much frustration there. So creating these self-service tools that really allow non-technical merchandisers to go in, make adjustments to how they're selling products across all those channels very, very easily and in one place, that's gonna return a ton of value to our merchants. So its another thing that we're super excited about. >> No, you deliver that consistent experience that the consumer is expecting, and then, we were talking to PayPal earlier, start to help companies close that revenue gap of getting them from mobile to, you know, wanting to transact and making that whole process seamless. >> There's a nine billion dollar opportunity in closing the mobile gap. When you think about abandoned cards and folks that begin the checkout process for whatever reason, likely they get frustrated and don't want to type in their credit card number or don't want to type in their address, and then they move to another device or another store that's doing checkout in a more frictionless way, the nine billion dollar opportunity if you close that. >> Wow, that's huge! >> So its incredibly important. >> It is incredibly important. Well Jason, we wish we had more time, but we thank you so much for stopping by theCUBE and talking with Jeff and Me. Such an exciting time. Sounds like developers are feeling embraced. The community is happy. Customers are reacting well. So we can't wait to hear whats next, next year. >> This is the best place to be in the world in commerce. Thank you guys so much for having me on. It's always a pleasure, and I've enjoyed it a lot. >> Oh, our pleasure as well, Jason. >> Alright, thank you, guys. Thanks, Jason. >> For Jeff Frick, I'm Lisa Martin at Imagine 2019 at the Wynn, Las Vegas. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Adobe Summit 2019. Brought to you by Adobe. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage, here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit 2019. I'm John Furrier, Jeff Frick my co-host this week. Michael Yung is the CIO of Asia Miles. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Great to be here. >> So take a minute before we get into the conversation about machine learning, and all the cool tech. What does Asia Miles do, what's your role there, and stuff they do? >> Asia Miles is the loyalty reward program of the Hong Kong, Cathay Pacific Airways. So, typical airline, but we have the reward program to support our members of Cathay pacific airways. We have over, about 11 million members, and over 700 partners around the world. >> How many members? >> 11 million. >> 11 million? >> Wow. >> That seems like a lot to me. (laughs) >> We are the leading loyalty program in the region, in Asia. In fact we started the program about 20 years ago, so in 1999, so this is our 20th anniversary. >> Wow, congratulations. >> So, similar to any Loyalty program, our members can earn miles by flying, traveling, dining, shopping. Even have your mortgage with our banking partners. At the same time, using the miles, you can redeem rewards. Hotel stays, flight tickets, and even for tablet computers or mobile phones. So you can do all of this. >> So, you did the web 1.0, web 2.0, web 3.0. (laughs) You've lived the journey. >> Paper 1.0. >> So my job is actually leading the digital part of the team. As you know, like loyalty program, you don't have protection lines, you don't have branches, everything is digital. So our web, our mobiles, our engines to support the earnings, and engines to support the reductions are all digital. So basically, we are more like a digital marketing company, we links the partners, their products, their offers, to our members. >> So, important is obviously the data, it's super important. And having connections points, APIs, open systems. Is it open APIs? >> Yes, all of these are technologies in our stack. So, basically our membership profiles are databases. And then with APIs we can do all sorts of modeling, or calculation, or segmentation. And then we push through our marketing offers, or campaigns, to our targeted members. >> That sounds like good architecture. Now what, specifically of Adobe product stack, are you using, for Adobe? >> We used almost the whole suite of Adobe products. We started our baby step about three years ago with Adobe Experience Manager. Basically our contact management systems are website or mobile. And then we extended to campaign to automate our marketing campaigns. And then later on audience manager, target and analytics. So it has evolved. So basically a full stack. >> So you're a big customer of all the products. So one of the big things they're talking about is the data, role of data, and machine learning's coming up a lot. How are you applying machine learning, with all those millions of members, and all the different diverse contact you have, and the different connection points to partners. You have to, kind of have this free flowing operating environment, platform yourself. So how are you using machine learning to either automate away things that you're doing manually, or creating new innovation insights. >> As I mentioned, we have to match the offers from our 700 partners to 11 million members, right. And therefore we build certain technologies, like propensity modeling, that we can tell, say from you miles balance, your life stages, your persona, and your lifetime varial, and then we do, what we call the partner recommendation engine. So the recommendation engine will push certain offers to John, or to Jeff already, based on all your profiles. And that requires some machine learning and modeling as well, from our data scientists. >> I'm curious how the expectation has changed over time in terms of, kind of what your members expect to get out of the application. Because I assume they want more, and more, and more, what was special today is common tomorrow. And how you've been able to continue to adapt and change what you often experience. >> Right, great question. First of all, our members really like to go mobile, so our offers have to be location based. So with your mobile apps, then you can see, okay what are the popular restaurants around me, that I can earn miles easily. Or, if it's a Monday, then you can earn, say double miles if you buy something with retails partners as well. So all this, the partners, and the members expect more. And, secondly, members are smart enough to tell that, oh, your offers is generated by a machine. It's not personalized enough. For example, if I just fly to San Francisco last week, why'd you promote San Francisco flight ticket to me? Or hotel again? >> Right. >> I'm not going to San Francisco again. >> The re-targeting thing is brutal. >> Brutal, yeah. So you have to really base it on the transaction history, and the other features or signals, and then define the next offer. And this is really important. >> And do you help the customers figure, because you just said if you eat out on a Monday, maybe you get double miles because the restaurants are slow. Is that something that you guys have discovered in your analytics, that you're helping your partners to get more pull on their offers, or is that being driven from them? Because you have a lot, you've got a lot more data than an individual restaurant, or some of your other partners. >> But I mean, even in Hong Kong, Monday's a slow day for business. >> Right, right, right, right. >> So it's good to help out the partners a bit, you earn double miles. Or on certain important days, or holidays, you get triple miles by buying something. So it's natural for our partner's, and our member's expectations. >> You have an economy. (laughs) It's like, you've got to have a fiscal policy. >> Well let me tell you all loyalty programs pretty run like this. >> It's really highly data driven, you have reputation, you have influence. >> Exactly. >> It's very important, I'd almost imagine, contextual understanding about what's happening, and having the right data. You mentioned that re-target thing, about San Francisco. I see this all the time on re-target, they don't have the context. I mean that really makes for a really poor personalized experience. Talk about context, having data in context to something. How hard is that? >> Well it's really from data, turned into information, and then actionable insight, it's really hard. So, even we have so many team members doing all this modeling, there are times that we need powerful tools to do proper segmentation and targeting. And that tool's got to be really flexible, and fast responsive to certain context. And with that Adobe products help us a lot. >> What's the biggest to do for you, going next step as you continue to grow. You're digital, all digital. You have Adobe Suite, cloud computing scale, a lot of data context, a lot of usable data. What's next for your business, what's next for you. >> Well, last year we started to test the water to try out blockchain technology. So we have the marketing campaign rules, and packed that in a blockchain smart contract. And this is one of the things that we invested a lot of time and resources into it. We believe in the future marketing campaign has got to be more real time, and you can earn your bonus miles straight away, instead of waiting two, three months until the end of the campaign. So hopefully with the marketing platform, and also newer technology, and better data, we can do better campaigns. >> In terms of skills to deal with the kind of things that you're doing, with future proofing your business with blockchain, love that. Smart contracts going on, peer to peer, immutable, love that value proposition. You get reputation, move that over into currency. >> One of the options. >> Asia coin. (laughs) >> Optimize is one of the options. >> What else is on your mind? KPIs, how do you look at data sets, how do you guys view? >> Measure success. >> How do you measure success? >> Well, I would say first of all, all the stakeholders have got to be happy with the program. I mean, the stakeholders include our members, partners, our shareholders, and our employees. They're important to make sure that the program is successful. And also including the engagement ratio, and our package ratio, where there are a lot of members that usually don't have chances to redeem things, and then they let the miles expire, for example. So helping them maintain a healthy package ratio is also a KPI that we measure carefully. And then, other than that I think all our employees or staff, they let you know, or they need to understand how technology and business mix together. If you're good in business, but not knowing marketing technology, for example. Or if you only understand technology but not the business, for example, it's just not good enough for the future. So the skillset why you have to understand both. >> How are you using technology, especially Adobe, how is Adobe helping you, and then what other things you might be doing, to help internal processes get better? Because one of the things I'm seeing here at this show is, with the platform, as you start to thread the data together and let the data, kind of naturally flow, with machine learning and the different data points, you can start to get some visibility to insights that might not be there. So that's going to cause some internal disruption. People might lose there job, or new jobs emerge, there's always conflict when you're progressing. How do you use technology, and this technology, to keep getting higher functionality, better economics, what's the internal struggles, and gains look like? >> Well, for example, before the days of marketing platform, or Adobe days, you may need to take weeks to prepare a campaign, if not months. Because you need to prepare all the contents, all the lead assignments, and then you push out through all the different channels. But now you can be always on campaign, different dates. And, for the blockchain example, we can actually eliminate the reconciliation and settlement effort. So the back office operation team, they can move along to do something else. To do more campaigns, or to talk to the partners more, to understand their needs. Instead of just number crunching, we do reconciliation. So I think, it's not about with less resources, but with the same resources, how to do more things. >> Right. >> And it's almost continuous improvement on the campaign. >> Yes, continuous, all the time. >> Versus just, you know, let's plan a campaign, run a campaign, measure the campaign. It's just constantly going. >> Prepare, run it, and then measure. Just never ending. >> As an Adobe customer do you like the direction that they're going? >> Yes, yes. All exciting products are in the road map. And we are ready to explore more in the future. >> Michael, thank you for coming on and visiting us. >> Okay, my pleasure. >> We appreciate it. Here inside theCUBE we're taking all the action, here at Adobe summit. Getting the data, sharing it with you out in the open internet. Thanks for watching, I'm John, with Jeff Frick. Stay with us for more coverage from day one after this short break. (upbeat music)