>>from around the globe. It's the queue with digital coverage of women transforming technology brought to you by VM Ware. >>Hi, Lisa Martin covering the fifth annual Women Transforming Technology event the first time it has been running in. So we're not coming to you from Palo Alto today coming to you from San Jose that I'm really excited to be talking with one of the event speakers, the founder of Happier Inc. Natalie Kogan. Natalie, Welcome to the Cube. Thanks so much for having me great to join you, even virtually. Exactly. And we're so fortunate that this I guess, if you can, if you can put a positive spin on it that this event happened when we have technology to still be able to enable as much interaction into a conversations or multiple way conversations as possible. And I know that you just did a session and a couple of days ago at the Digital Women transforming Allergy then But before we get into that, I saw your Ted talk was awesome and it's it's such a and the timeliness happier as a subject, couldn't be more, um, really pivotal. Tell me a little bit about what happier is what the inspiration Waas for your company? >>Definitely. So as many entrepreneurs. The inspiration was my personal journey. So I grew up in the former study on when I was 13 years old, my parents and I left everything and everyone behind and on a journey deep fried becomes refugees did the United States, and we had, as you can imagine, this is a really difficult experience with several months and refugee settlements in Europe before getting permission to come to the U. S. As refugees. And we started our journey and the projects that have destroyed, you know, on welfare and food stamps, very grateful to have an opportunity, but really, really tough. And I was really overwhelmed. That was a teenager. I spoke almost no English, and it was all overwhelming for me. And I kind of decided for myself that if I could just work really hard, achieve a lot of things become successful, then I would feel happy. And then I would just feel like honor this American dream. And for the next 20 years, I did work very, very hard. I did become very successful. I reached the price of four for success. I worked at Mackenzie, you know, the very well known consulting firm. By the age of 25 I was a managing director. We're a venture capital firm in New York. There's fewer than 6% women in venture capital. I started for different companies. I was part of Microsoft in the tech companies, and on the outside I was a feeding incredible stuff. And while I still am still proud of every single thing I achieved, whenever I would've David, I feel happy. And then it was just like the bubble just off, and I didn't feel happy anymore. And so I pushed myself harder and harder because I equated happiness for the achievement. Until, after two decades of doing this, I just couldn't do it anymore. I completely burnt out. Um, it was a really, really dark time in my life, and I knew I had to find a different way to live so that I could do work that's meaningful to me, but that I could also honor myself as a human and find joy in the present. And that led me to doing a lot of research in psychiatry and psychology and neuroscience and learning all of these incredible skills and practices that changed my life, starting with gratitude, which is how you cultivate join the present moment and really inspired me to leave. My career is a technology exact behind you found happier. We have the same mission since we've been founded and that is to help millions of people. Dr. In working in life by practicing science, back skills to cultivate there will be what are >>some of the scientific skills behind it and anything that that, you see that is even more pivotal in week eight of this work from home shelter in place? >>Yes. You know it It sounds really weird to say, but I feel like I've been preparing my full life. Do you help people right now? Because the skills that I have learned and I share are so essential. And >>the two that I >>would mention that I've been you know, we've been doing all these virtual sessions for teams and companies, and this is the ones I talk about. The first is the skill of gratitude. You know, gratitude is just very simply zooming in on something in your life that is good. That is positive. That is meaningful. and honoring it with your full appreciation. And you know, we're all right now going for so many challenges and we all have with all the negativity bias. And that means we're much more sensitive humans, anything that's negative and anything that positive and when we're going through a challenge, that negativity biases even more sensitive. So I know many folks right now are feeling really overwhelmed with their own feelings, but their own sense of loss and fear and with all the negative news and so practicing gratitude is essential because when you pause and you focus on the things >>in your life as it is, >>um, it's the challenge that you do appreciate. You remind your brain that the the challenge is not everything, that there is more to your life than what is going wrong. And that actually helps you to feel a little bit less stressed and anxious. And the other piece of science that I love to share is another skill that I talked about, which does Ah, and acceptance. Really. It simply means that we learn, look at how things are and how we feel with clarity instead of judgment, right and shorthand for judgment is should shouldn't feel like this. It shouldn't be this way, and that's having clarity. Allowing yourself to actually feel the difficult feelings helps us to move through them with a little bit more easy. I think it's one of the most, um, powerful mindset. A mindset shift that I learned on my journey is that happiness does not mean that you feel positive all the time. Happiness and emotional being means that we embrace all of our different feelings, including the difficult one, and we learned how to move through them with compassion. What are >>some of the things that when you're talking to the C suite executives that certain companies, whether it's bm ware or others, how our executive teams managers, where does the emotional health come in to the play? Knowing that these folks are managing teams, there are, we're seeing, as you point out, you know, the negativity vice. We're seeing the numbers of unemployment go up and up and up. Where is emotional health in terms of priority at the executive level? So this is >>one of the it, so it sounds really weird to say, but all of a sudden its like in this huge wave it already started, right? Some companies and we work with many of them already understood. The executives already understood that employee well, being an emotional health, it's not an extra. It is not optional. It is non negotiable. If you want your people to be at their best, there are literally mountains of research that show that when you cultivate, employees will be people are more productive, more resilient. More so, Cecil, they still better problems. But happened in this crisis is that the companies that were in a place where oh, this isn't really important or this is nice to have They are now recognizing that this is actually the most important thing that they could invest in for the success and longevity and survival of their businesses. And so I'm actually incredibly grateful for that. I don't like that off that we have to pay for it. But I am incredibly grateful that in this challenging time, more and more leaders there understanding that their own well being and the emotional health of their employees is non negotiable, not just for survival of their businesses, but if they want to be at their best and actually figure out how to thrive in whatever the future holds. >>And I'm glad to hear that, because the massive amount of uncertainty that we're all facing is unprecedented. You know, you can't pick up the phone and call your Brian mother and say, What did you guys do back in the day? And honestly, even if there had been something similar, 1918 hasn't been that long ago. People have nowadays are used to getting everything that you want on demand and also being able to get connected. Um, have good WiFi and be able to deliver what your clients what your what your bosses expect. The uncertainty factor that really weighs heavily on emotion is a huge inhibitor to productivity negotiation. Being worry >>if I can jump in uncertainty is the hardest thing for a brain to deal with. Our brains would rather know that something very bad will definitely happen. Then the B and uncertainty and I've actually been talking so much the companies and leaders about this, that this is literally the most stressed that we can experience because our brains number one job and I'm the founder of a company called Happier. But I always say that your brain number one job is not to keep you happy. It >>is to help you surmise. And so >>you're bring this constantly Evaluating your environment is the state of fruit or is a dangerous right fighter. But we know that was fun. What's happening right now is that the brain and I've come up with an answer. It doesn't know. Is it safe? Is it not safe? And I don't just mean in a macro way, um, macroeconomic way with the virus. I mean day to day. Things change day to day. We're juggling kids and family, and our businesses are changing so the brain doesn't give up. It's still tries really hard to figure out how to keep your state and that hard that working overtime the way it does that is by releasing stress hormones. So on top of just the very real challenges that so many folks have with worrying about loved ones juggling, working from home and family, there's also this chronic level of stress the world feeling because of uncertainty. >>Tell me a little bit about the interactive session that you held at WT through the other day. What were some of the common concerns or questions that you heard from the >>audience. Yeah, it's really interesting. It was such a great session, and we we had a lot of questions. We could not answer all the questions. Um, and I think that it means a lot to make it really thought about what they wanted to ask. There's a couple of things that emerged as common thread. The first was, How do I help someone in my life a colleague that I manage a loved one? How do I help them during this time if they're really overwhelmed or stressed? They're feeling sad, and we talked about the seal of acceptance, and we talked about how it might be our instincts to immediately cheer up the first thing. But actually, the bigger gift we can give them is to let them know that it's okay to not be okay and to honor their feelings with our effectiveness, and that actually helped them get through. So that was one of the themes that came up a lot. Another one was, with all of this uncertainty and the stress, like people would ask, I have trouble getting motivated like I love my job I love what I do, but I have so much trouble getting motivated, and that is very real. And the first thing that if anyone listening, feels this way, um, there's nothing wrong with you. Think about the amount of energy you're brain is using on all the stress. So no wonder you feel more fired and not as motivated. And so we talked about practicing self compassion, Um, in our expectations of ourselves and recognizing that we're undergoing something unprecedented and so difficult and then get motivated connecting the past on your to do list. Do How do they help someone else? Because that is where we connect first since the purpose, right, So that projects you're working on with your team or that presentation that you just can't get motivated to do. Ask yourself who does this help and actually answer the question? And in that moment, you connect yourself the purpose, which helps us be more resilient and more motivated. >>Get a notification or lack thereof is a huge problem, and I you know, you can't think it's not just may, not just you. It's got to be all the way up to the tops of companies that are really struggling because, as you say, the brain is so focused right now and busy and trying to assess things. And there are no concrete answers. But one of the things that you said I read your article in The Washington Post that you just did in the last week or so with your daughter and with my daughter. Yeah, with your daughter Mia. And the validation was Start on. And it it's so simple. But it's one of those things that I think often we think, Well, let me explain something and try to help you in that way without maybe stepping back and going well, actually help me. But what helps you? Are you seeing that that the executive leaders are also kind of stepping back and asking their teams? How are the ways that you want me to communicate with you? Or is that something that's happened? You know, I think that >>we are in an era of, um, human embracing leadership of, and I am so welcoming the era of leaders who are leading with their humanity first and are embracing the humanity of their people first. You know, I have this, um, actually working on my next book right now with this for leaders. And I have this concept, um, because I was a leader for so many years, and I always thought that I keep my emotions hidden, that emotions really didn't have anything to do with work. So I have this part that for leaders, they imagine you're holding a white board, and this is your emotional whiteboard on it are written your feeling. Whether you want to admit them or not, that team feels them, and it's the same for everyone on the team. So when you walk into a meeting, whether the virtual meeting or in person what is written on your emotional whiteboard, what are you feeling? And how are you approaching others? What do you want to be written on your emotional whiteboard, right? I think, as leaders, we would say, Well, I want to stay there, hear about you as my employees, that I want to hear how you're feeling. But think about are the actions you're taking aligning with with on your emotional whiteboard, right? And so listening and hearing, you know, I have this, um, came up with shorthand. Really? For me as a leader during a challenging time, and it's at C D. The first is acknowledge. Acknowledge your own challenges. Acknowledge your teams challenges, right. Validation. This point we're talking about, he is prepare genuinely care, right? So don't just do it as a check mark. But bring your humanity and compassionate actually care about people. There's so much research that when employees know that their leader cares about them, that on its own is hopeful for them. So there will be in their productivity. And he acts. So a c c es teach by example. So do the things that you want, your employees, the follow. And, um, I do see leaders stepping up more and more in their passion and their acceptance. And again, I think this is, ah, difficult but unique moment in time Do elevate our human embracing leadership. >>Do you advise women and men? Teoh. When we talked about gratitude a few minutes ago, right down, maybe. Right. Maybe it helps with your visual learner or someone that learns by storytelling to write things down, Maybe write down each day a few things. Maybe they seem so simple that you're grateful for, Or maybe even I like the idea of the emotional White Board. I can see that as something that would be helpful to write down. Do you recommend that to folks and maybe write down what your actual emotional thing is and what you want it to be? So a couple >>things on that. So the short answer is yes, you know, when it comes to gratitude, Um, it doesn't really matter how you practice like people say to me like I'm not a journalist, that's fine. That as long as you're specific and your gratitude So instead of I'm grateful for my family, how about I'm really grateful that I could give my daughter hug before I started interview? Right? So the more specific, the better. And actually the smaller the better. You talked about small things. Research shows that it's the frequency of small, positive experiences that contribute thoroughly. Satisfaction more than anything, grants so the smaller the better and capturing does health, so you can write in a journal. You can write it on a sticky notes. Maybe it's a text that you send to a friend to encourage them to practice practice as a leader. Maybe it's an email that you send to your teams. The factoring in some way really does help. And when it comes to the emotional white board, the practice that I share with, um, everyone is a check in. Check in with yourself, right? It's so incredible. You know, we have this group for women executives elevating women leaders. Is that all Vertical group, the year long program. It was worked well before this. So we have a group that goes with us every year, and one of the practice that we do is in the morning and in the afternoon, you check in with yourself on just day all my feeling, and you would not believe the impact that that has on their ability to solve problems on their ability to show up as their best just by pausing and checking in, like, How am I feeling what is in my emotional whiteboard? Acknowledging that without Dutchman being compassionate towards yourself and then saying, What is one thing I can shift if I would like you feel differently? >>The acknowledgement piece is critical, I think because it's it's the vulnerability to step up and go. I don't feel great about this and let me let me say that out loud. Maybe it helps me become accountable to that or expect it to a boss or a colleague that put it out there. That's a hard thing for people to do. Especially I think there is this dichotomy of people being concerned about John Safety when we're seeing what's going on in the news. Did any of that have come up during your WT two session about? I'm afraid to admit that I'm not motivated because our company's experiencing layoff. >>Yeah, it's definitely come up in the session and other sessions of kind of finding that balance. And look, you have to be realistic because we all have different filters in our teams. You have to be realistic about your leadership. But what I find over and over is that authenticity wins today, right? So, um, you have to you have to make all right how much you share. But even if it's just a little bit of Acknowledgments, it is helpful because it helps you not resist it so much and more likely than not. There's somebody on your team who feel similarly so that, by the way, there's comfort in knowing we're not alone. there's actually neurological comfort in knowing we're not alone like we need that sense of safety, but also you made them be able to move through that and brainstorm together and help each other get motivated. So you know, you have to judge by the culture of your team. But authenticity and you acknowledging your humanity to whatever degree you feel comfortable is usually an incredibly hopeful practice to help you be at your best, whatever that means. That >>day, I couldn't agree with you more. I always The authenticity is contagious. Natalie. It's been so great having you on the program. I wish we could keep chatting, but it is time to go. Thank you so much so folks can go toe happier, dot com or help your fellow happier and more. How about your home? Lots >>of lots of tons of free block posts and videos on all of the different practices I shared more about anything we do. So yes, come visit us that happier dot com and thank you so much for such thoughtful questions. I'm always incredibly grateful for thoughtful questions at interviews, but I really appreciate that. Well, >>good. Now it's been a pleasure having you. And I want to thank you for watching on behalf of Natalee code. And I'm Lisa Martin covering women transforming technology. The virtual version 2025. For now. >>Yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!