(bright music) >> Announcer: From around the globe, it's "theCUBE", with digital coverage of VMworld 2020, brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is "theCUBE's" coverage of VMworld 2020. Of course, such a broad ecosystem in the VMware environment. Been talking a lot, of course, this year, about what's happened in the Cloud Native space. vSphere 7 has Kubernetes coming into the virtualized environment. And one of those key pieces of doing cloud is you need to make sure data protection still works. And, of course, VMware has a long history working with lots of companies. In this segment, we're going to be digging into the VMware, and Dell, also, solution for data protection. So, happy to welcome to the program. First, I have, from VMware, Tom Spoonemore. He is a product line manager for Modern Application Platform with VMware, and welcome back to the program, one of our CUBE alumnis, Efri Nattel-Shay, who is with Dell technologies, Director of Data Protection and Cloud Native apps. Efri, welcome back, Tom, welcome to the program. >> Thank you very much, it's good to be here. >> So, Tom, I kind of teed it up in my intro. VMware, for the longest time, for as long as I can remember, we've really talked about that ecosystem, those joint solutions. I remember, back when we started "theCUBE", in 2010, you'd go there and it would be, oh, there's $15, no, $20, for every dollar that you spend on VMware that the ecosystem kind of pulls along. When VMware started building the VMware Cloud Foundation and the VMware cloud solutions, data protection really went along with it. So, the integrations that they done with vSphere hold them in there as the environment. Tanzu Kubernetes, there's a lot of new pieces. But I think some of those principles have stayed the same. So, why don't you start us off. Tell us a little bit, philosophically, how is VMware treating this space, and how data protection fills into it, and then, Efri, we'll get your take on it, too. >> Yeah, sure, absolutely. So, from the perspective of VMware and the ecosystem, as you say, we want to be very inclusive. We want to bring the ecosystem and our partners along with what we're doing, regardless of what space it is, and in the Modern Applications Platform and Cloud Native tooling, we're very much thinking along the same lines. And as it relates to data protection in specific, Cloud Native is a place where, mainly it's been thought of as a place for stateless applications. but what we're seeing in people's deployments is more and more stateful applications are beginning to move to Kubernetes and into containers. And so the question then becomes, what do you do for data protection of those applications that are deployed into Kubernetes? And so, with Tanzu, and specifically Tanzu Mission Control, we have included a data protection capability, along with the other capabilities that come with Mission Control, that allows you to provide data protection for your fleet of Kubernetes clusters, regardless of which distribution, regardless of which cloud they're running on, and regardless of how many teams you might have running on a particular cluster or set of clusters. And so, for this reason, we have introduced a data protection capability that is focused around our open source project called Velero and Mission Control operates Velero in your clusters from a central UI API and CLI. That allows you to do data protection, initiating schedules of backups, doing restores, and even migration from cloud to cloud, from a single control point. And part of this vision is not only providing an API that we can handle directly with our own Velero-based implementation, but also opening that up to partners. And this is where we're working with Dell, specifically, to be able to provide that single API, but yet have Dell, for instance, with their PowerProtect solution, be able to plug in and be a data protection provider underneath Tanzu Mission Control. And so, that's the work that we're doing together to help satisfy this vision that we have for data protection in the Cloud Native space. >> Yeah, agree 100% with Tom. Like Tom has said, when we looked at customer environments three years ago, people talk mainly about stateless applications, but over time, when more storage solutions, persistent data solutions came along, there came the need to, not only provision the data, but also protect it, and be able to do backups, and restores, and cyber recovery solutions, and disaster recovery, and the whole set of use cases that allow a full life cycle of data along the Cloud Native set of applications, not just a traditional one. And what we've seen, we're talking, obviously, with a lot of customers, joint customers with VMware, customers that use our storage solutions, as well as others, on-prem and in the cloud. And what they have shown, to say, there, is that you have the IT infrastructure people on one hand, which have certain needs, and there is the new set of users, the DevOps people, who are writing applications in a new way, and they need to communicate and they need a solution that fits both of them. So, with VMware, with the community, with Velero, we are introducing a solution that is capable of doing both management for the DevOps people, as well as for the other team infrastructure. And, a year ago, we have talked about this coming up, and now it's really there, and it's doing great. >> Oh, Efri, I'm so glad you brought up some of those organizational issues, because it's not just, oh, we have some new applications, and, of course, we need to do data protection. Can you bring us inside a little bit? Your customers, are they aware of what they need to do? Is it central IT that's coming over and telling the DevOps team, hey, don't forget, security, data protection, still super important. How does that engagement go, and what change does that have for the Dell field and the channel? >> Yeah, I think that the more successful organizations really have that kind of dialogue. So, the developers are not operating in silos. They're not doing things themselves. They do, some of the use cases, they do need to copy data for their own use, but they understand that there are also organizational needs. Someone needs to sign the audit pass, the SLAs are in compliance, the regulations are met. So, all of these things, someone needs to do them. And there is a mutual recognition that there is a role for these people and for these people, for these use cases and for these use cases. >> Yeah, I would agree with that. One of the things that we're seeing, particularly as you think about Kubernetes as a multitenant kind of platform, what we're seeing is that central IT operations still wants to make sure that backups are happening with stateful applications, but more and more they're relying on and providing self-service capabilities to line of business and DevOps, to be able to back up their applications in the way that's best for those applications. It's a recognition of domain expertise for a particular application. So, what we've done with Mission Control is allowed central IT to define policy. And those policies then give the framework, or guidelines, if you will, that then allow the DevOps teams to make the best choices within their own field of expertise and for their own applications. >> Yeah, and what we've seen is some of the organizations really like full control over central IT, and some customers have told us, don't give anything to the developers, but most of them are asking for some self-service capabilities for the developers. But then, who is setting the policy? Who is saying, okay, I have a gold policy data protection? Does it mean I replicate to another side? Does it mean I do longterm retention for a month, or for a year? That is for someone in central IT to set up. So, saying what the policy means, or what it actually is, is the job of a central IT, whereas, this application needs application consistency, and it is of gold policy, that oftentimes is the best knowledge and domain expertise of the developer. >> So, Tom, you mentioned Tanzu Mission Control, which is the management solution. Tanzu is a portfolio. Can you help walk us through the relevant pieces here that are part of this joint solution? >> Yeah, sure. So, Tanzu is really a portfolio of applications, or a portfolio of solutions, as you've said. It's really along three main pillars. It's what we call, build, run and manage. Tanzu Mission Control fills in, along with our Tanzu Observability and Tanzu Service Mesh, in our manage pillar. The build pillar is more along the lines of supporting developing of modern applications, developing and deploying modern applications. So, many of the technologies that have come from our acquisitions of Pivotal, as well as Bitnami, make up that pillar, and these are technologies that are coming to fore, and you'll hear more and more about at this VM world and going forward. Our run pillar is really where you'll find Tanzu Kubernetes Grid. Now, this is our distribution, but it's more than just a distribution of Kubernetes. It's a distribution of Kubernetes, along with all the tools that you would need to be able to deploy modern applications. So, all of these three pillars come together, along with services provided by Pivotal labs, to really give you a full, multifaceted platform for deploying and operating modern applications. >> Great, and Efri, where are there integrations there? How does the storage fit in has been a discussion we've been having for a few years% when it comes to Kubernetes. >> Yeah, basically, PowerProtect integrates with all of these levels that Tom has mentioned, starting with the lowest levels of integration. With the storage, VMware has Cloud Native storage solutions, which allow things like incremental snapshots to be taken from the environment. And we're using this mechanism in order to copy data efficiently from TKG, Tanzu Kubernetes Grid, environment, out of the cluster, into a space-efficient data domain, as a target site. So, that's a storage integration. Then, there is qualification and support for the various run environments that Tom has mentioned, the Tanzu Kubernetes Grid, and Tanzu Kubernetes Grid Integrated, as well as things that we're working with VMware in order to enable protection for what has been called the Project Pacific, which really allows you very sophisticated capabilities of running multiple Kubernetes clusters using the Kubernetes cluster API capabilities. So, you can spin up a cluster very, very quickly by VMware. And then, we can take backups of this environment up to data domain target site. And, finally, working with Tom for tons of amount of time and effort to do the integration between Tanzu Mission Control and PowerProtect. So, allowing cloud, multicloud, multilocation environments to be provisioned and monitoring by Tanzu Mission Control, but also protected using PowerProtect. >> Yeah, so, Tom, we talked about supporting the ecosystem, and it's a much faster cadence now than it was in the past. It used to be, it felt like every other year at VMworld, we got together and talked about the major vSphere release. Of course, in the container, in Kubernetes world, we're having a much faster cadence. So, could you just help us understand, what of this is generally available today? We saw vSphere 7 back in the spring. The update, right ahead of VMworld, that really extended Kubernetes beyond just VCF, to be able to be an all vSphere 7 environment. So, we know some of this is here on the roadmap, so help map this out for us, what's here today from VMware and what the timeline is we expect for all of these pieces we've been discussing. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, Mission Control shipped in March. So we're still relatively new, but as you say, we run Cloud Native ourselves, and so we're releasing new features, new capabilities. literally every week. We have a weekly cadence for release. Our data protection capability was just introduced at the end of June, so it's fairly new, and we are still introducing capabilities, like bring your own storage, doing scheduling of backups, and this kind of thing. You'll see us adding more and more cloud providers. We have been working to open up the platform to make it available to partners. And this is, just generally, with Mission Control, across the board, but specifically, when it comes to Dell, and PowerProtect, the data protection capability, this is something that we are still actively working on, and it is past the architecture stage, but it's probably still a little ways out before we can deliver on it, but we are working on it diligently, and definitely expect to have that in the product, and available, and really providing a basis for integrations with other providers as well. >> Yeah, and in terms of PowerProtect, we have told the audience about a tech preview a year ago, and since then we have released a number of releases. We are having a quarterly cadence. So, it is available for the general consumption for quite some time. Talking about the integration layers that we have mentioned before, we are the first stack to protect VMs and Kubernetes and applications using the same platform, the same UI, the same policies, everything looks the same. And we have recently introduced capabilities such as application consistency for a number of applications. The support for TKG is available for now. And, as Tom has said, we are working on further integrations, such as the integration with Tanzu Mission Control with VMware. >> Wonderful, I want to get a final word from both of you. Efri, we'll start with you. We've got this regular cadence coming up. We know we're only a couple of weeks away from DTWE, the Dell Technology World Experience, where, of course, theCUBE will be there. What should we look for the rest of 2020, or any final comments that you have for customers that might be looking at this environment? >> Sure, I think that, two trends that I'm seeing, and they're just getting stronger over the years. The first thing is multicloud, and multicloud means many things to different people, but, basically, every customer that we are speaking to is talking about, I want to run things on-prem, but I also need to run these workloads in the hyperscaler. And I need to move from one hyperscaler region to another, or between hyperscalers, and they want to run this distribution here, and the other distribution there. And there are many combinations of stacks and Database-as-a-Service and other components of the infrastructure that different developers are using on-prem and in the cloud. So, I expect this to go even further, and solutions like PowerProtect and TKG can help customers to do that job, and, of course, Tanzu Mission Control, to monitor and manage this environment. Secondly, I think that protection is going to follow more the workloads. So, application is no longer the VM. Obviously, it's becoming many different components that are starting to span across locations and across environments. And again, the protection nature of these is going to change according to where and how these workloads are being provisioned. >> Yeah, and I would say the same thing about Mission Control, very much multicloud-focused, Today it's largely an AWS-focused solution. We're changing to add more flexible storage options, more clouds. Azure is something that we'll be doing in the short term, Google Cloud platform and Google Cloud Storage after that, as well as just the ability to use your own on-prem storage for your backup targets. Also, we're going to be focusing on driving more policy-driven backup. So, being able to define policies for groups of clusters, define RTO and RPO for groups of clusters, allowing Mission Control to help determine what the individual backup policy should be for that particular asset. And continuing to work with Dell and other partners to help extend our platform and open it up for other data protection providers. >> Tom and Efri, thanks so much for the updates. Tom, welcome to being a CUBE alumni, and Efri, I'm sure we'll be seeing you in the team, in the near future. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Stay with us for more coverage from VMworld 2020. I'm Stu Miniman, and as always, thank you for watching theCUBE. (bright music)

(soft music) >> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman. And we're digging in with VMware with the latest update of the VMware cloud, on AWS definitely technology solution set that the ecosystem has been very interesting into. And to help us do that deep dive happy to welcome back to the program, Kit Colbert. He is the Vice President and CTO of the cloud platform business unit with VMware. Kit, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me Stu. >> All right, so you brought along some slides said if people want to watch we've done an executive interview to give kind of the general business update, but when it comes to the technology, you know I guess we start with VMware, Amazon partnership is a deep integration we've heard both from Andy Jassy and for Pat Gelsinger, on how much engineering work and how critically important it is. Anybody from the technical side understand that one of the interesting things in cloud is that Amazon created bare metal instances to support this solution. So one of the items here is that there is a new bare metal instance. So why don't you bring us inside, you know What the updates are and what this means to the user base? >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah so the bare metal support is something that we worked very closely with AWS on when we were first launching VMware cloud on AWS. And the idea there was that bare metal support is that it very similarly models, EC2 virtual machines, in the sense of each of these Vms VM types or instance types, as they say, are various kinds of T short sizes, right? And so they have a lot of these different instance types. And so similarly speaking, on the bare metal side, we're also seeing a lot of different instance types there. So we started out with an i3.metal instance, and we added an r5.metal instance and now we're really excited to add what we're we're calling i3en.metal. And so lets bring about slide to talk more about all the new capabilities there with i3en. You know, we have found when we talk to customers is that they love the simplicity of the hyper converged model that i3 brings. What they said was, hey, we've got a lot of workloads that are storage capacity battle. And so that meant that, you know they had the issue there is workloads, they use some amount usually a good amount of CPU memory, but they have a lot of storage capacity requirements. What that meant with i3, is they had to get a lot of these i3 hosts to get enough storage capacity to support those workloads. And obviously, they have some extra compute capacity lying around. And so you know what we've done here with i3en, is dramatically increase the amount of storage capacity. So we can see here, what is it about 45 terabytes or so so much, much larger than what you can get about four x larger than we can get on i3en. metal today. So this is again, very targeted to those very large workloads that needed beefy underlying server and, just trying to better align the customer needs and workload needs with the underlying physical capabilities. And so this is just going to be one of many that we'll bring out. We've got, a whole pipeline of these actually. And, you know, again, you can imagine all the different types of VM instance types, right? There's GPU ones, there's FPGA based ones, you know, so there's all sorts of different shapes and sizes. And, you know as we get more and more feedback from customers, as they're running more and more applications, we'll get more and more of these instance types out there as well. >> Yeah, it's really interesting Kit it give, it gives me flashbacks. I'm thinking back to your 10 or even 15 years ago, when you talked in the early days of, did I just deploy VMware on the servers I had? Or did I buy servers that had the configuration, so I could optimize and take advantage of the feature functionality that's needed? All right, when I heard some of the things you talked about there, about the, you know, being able to use certain workloads and the like, one of the feedbacks I've gotten from users is, you know, the overall price of this, let's just say it's not the least expensive solution to start with. So, so, what, what are, what are some of the new entry level options that you have with the VMC on AWS? How does this update help? >> Yeah, yeah, first of all on the price side what we have found is that this is actually extremely price efficient price competitive. if you're able to utilize all the underlying physical and variable capacity. But you know, as you just mentioned, Stu, you know, the default configuration is three nodes of those i3 hosts, and that those three hosts aren't small either, right? They're pretty beefy and if you just want to get started, just try something small. Well, today, we do have actually a OneNote instance. But that OneNote instance, is just a temporary is kind of a testbed, if you will a proof of concept type of environment. It's not a long term, long running a production environment. And so customers kind of have this OneNote on the one hand or three notes on other and, you know, obviously they're saying, "Hey, why can't we just start with two nodes, "make it super simple, "reduce that price point again "for a very small footprint deployment, "and then allow us to scale up." So we bring up the next slide, what you can see is that that's exactly what we've done here as well, supporting two nodes now. And the idea here is this is a full production environment. You get all the great VMware technology, you can do motion stuff, HA, you get availability, and so forth, stores policies, as you see here. So again, this is meant to be a long lived, fully supported production environment that can also scale up if need be, right? You might start out with two nodes, but then find, "Hey, I want to add three or four or more." And you can certainly fully do that and fully support that. So again, this is just giving customers more optionality, more flexibility for where they want to to come in. What we've been doing thus far is talking with a lot of customers that had, you know, pretty large footprints and saying, "Hey, I want to move a good chunk of my data center, "or I've got a lot of workloads I want to burst." And of those cases, three or more nodes made a lot of sense. What we're finding now is that a lot of customers do want that flexibility to start smaller, just with two nodes really simple, kind of put their toe in the water, if you will and get a feel for the service and then expand from there. >> Yeah, okay, Kit, one, one quick follow up on this, you mentioned that if customers are maximizing, you know, leveraging the full environment they I have there, it's very cost competitive. You know, how are we hearing from data from from customers? What is their, their growth pattern? Are they getting good utilization? Do, do they have a good feel for, how to manage that economics in the AWS space, a lot of talk about things like FinOps these days, and how to make sure that the technical group and the Financial Group are working close together. >> Yeah, such a great question, actually. And the whole notion of the economics around this is a huge focus area for us. We have a whole Cloud Economics group, as a matter of fact, that we frequently bring in to talk with customers to help them think through all these different things. There's, there's a number of different considerations there. You know, a lot of look from, going from on-prem into the Cloud to the VMC on AWS. And, you know, with VMC on AWS, our prices are just public cloud in general, it's very easy to understand the price 'cause it's right up front, you're getting charged, right? On Premise a bit more difficult to understand that you've got a lot of capital expenses, you got a lot of other sort of operational expenses, you know, power electricity, people, and how do you, how do you make all the right computations there? So we have whole teams to help people think through that. But usually, what we have found is that price is not the main thing, right? Price is kind of a secondary or tertiary type of consideration. The main thing is always one of our primary use cases, it's like, man, I need to get out of my data centers, or my data center is that capacity, I want to keep it but I really need to be able to burst to the cloud, maybe some sort of test dev* like test in the cloud and production on pram or vice versa. Those are the key use cases that bring customers in, and then it's really a question of, okay, now that you know, you want to do this, how do we do this as effectively, efficiently from a cost perspective as well as possible, right? And that's where that sort of economic discussion starts to happen. And then you get into more of the details like, okay, which kind of instance type do I want? What are the cost metrics of that? Can I actually fill it to capacity? That's where we start getting into those more specific situations for each customer. >> Excellent, we have that. That really tees up for me kit, when, when I think about the, you know early customers that I've talked to that are using VMC on AWS, they tend to be your enterprise customers, they're big VMware customers, they've enterprise license agreements, and the like. VMware has got a strong history working across the board. And you talk about Cloud in previous solutions. You've had close partnerships with the, with the managed service providers. >> Yeah. >> So my understanding is you're actually looking to help connect between what you've done with a managed service project in the past and this VMware on AWS solution. So bring us inside, you know this, this, this option >> Sure. Yeah, let me let me break it down for you 'cause we do work with a lot of partners. You know, obviously from VMware, its inception partners have been, you know, core to our strategy and core to our success, right? What we've actually been doing, actually somewhat kind of quietly over the past 15 years anyway, isn't really building out, what we call our VMware Cloud Provider Partner Program, and the VCPP program. And, you know, the idea there is that we do have a lot of these managed service providers that can take our software and run it on behalf of their customers, essentially, delivering our software as a service to their customers. And that's been great. We've seen a lot of success stories there. And we have about 4200 of these folks now, like a tremendous amount spread all around the world, all sorts of different geographies, and also all sorts of different industry verticals. And so you see a lot of these folks getting really specific, you know, let's say to the finance, vertical, you know, in and around Wall Street, running all sorts of great services for the financial services firms. Well, these folks are looking to evolve as well and what they're saying and seeing is like, hey, you know, just this basic idea of running infrastructure. Well, I can do that. But it doesn't necessarily differentiate me right? I need to move up the stack and start offering more services, and really trying to be a very, you know, sort of boutique and targeted solution for their customers. And so a lot of these customers, you know, obviously want to run on VMC on AWS. And so what we've been doing is enabling these partners to, you know, sell through essentially VMC on AWS that to sell these servers to their customers. But one of the challenges there is that they're only able to sell the full sort of bare-metal server, they weren't able to break that up or split that across customers as they can do today within their own environments. In fact, today, within their environments, they use something called VMware Cloud Director. And this is software that we give them. And you know, it's really nice that you can take a vSphere environment, software-defined data center and break it apart or kind of carve it up, if you will, into multiple smaller tenants, then, the, you know, each of these customers can, can take part of. And so but we didn't have that functionality for VMware Cloud on AWS. And so that's for the announcements all about, so let's pull up the slide to talk about that. The basic idea here is we can now enable the same software defined data centers that are running inside of AWS as part of VMware Cloud on AWS to be accessed by VMware Cloud Director. And so what we've done is actually made, we call it VCD, for short made VCD, a service that we now operate, and it runs there alongside VMC on AWS. And so now these managed service providers can leverage the VCD as a service to rule out access and, and carve up these SDDC that they get. And, you know, the takeaway here is that we're just giving these partners much greater flexibility and optionality in terms of how they consume, the underlying bare-metal infrastructure on VMC on AWS, and then give that out to their own customers again, giving greater customer choice and options, those customers. >> All right kit, so the other big thing that we've covered this year with VMware, of course, is the launch of vSphere 7. What that means the cloud native-space, the whole Tanzu portfolio line. So help us understand how all the application modernization Kubernetes and like ties into now the solution that we're talking about. >> Yeah, absolutely. It's about a huge focus for us, as you know. Yeah, we launched Tanzu last year at Vmworld. And have, then launched the product set earlier this year, it's finally ready to GA. It's in great customer interest and has customer traction there. And obviously, one of the big questions people had was like, "Hey, how can I get this for VMC on AWS?" And so the specific product they were looking at there was called Tanzu Kubernetes Grid. And so the idea with Tanzu Kubernetes Grid is that it enables a customer to provision and manage Kubernetes clusters across any cloud, right? And you can do this on AWS, you can do this on-prem, on vSphere, or other clouds and so forth. And, so obviously, this technology needed to come to BMC. You know, the thing we talk about with customers, when it comes to VMC on AWS is this notion of migrate the modernize, that we can migrate you off of your on-prem infrastructure to this modernized cloud infrastructure that is VMC on AWS. And once you have that modernized infrastructure, it makes it much easier to modernize your applications, you've got all sorts of great AWS services sitting there. So now the application itself can start taking advantage of all these things, as well as these new type of capabilities. So let's pull up the slide for this one. So what we're announcing here is Tanzu Kubernetes Grid plus on VMC on AWS. And what this gives you is all that great functionality, the ability to get Kubernetes seamlessly running on top of your VMC environment right next to all of your existing apps. So it's not one of those situations where you need, you know, separate clusters or different environments. You can have a single environment, they can have both your traditional applications and your more modern ones. And Tanzu Kubernetes Grid takes care of all the management of that Kubernetes environment. It ensures that it's up to date, properly lifecycle manage, manage local security, you get a Container Registry there, can elastically scale based on demand. And of course, you get all that great consistency as well. And we do a lot of customers that are multicloud that, that are doing things across different environments. And so TKG can replicate itself and give you that consistent management across any of those environments on-prem and the cloud between clouds. So that's really what the power of this is. And again, it's really taking VMC from just being a platform from migrating your existing workloads to really being a platform for modernizing those workloads as well. >> Yeah, it's interesting Kit, you know if when I think about traditionally, VMware, it was, you know, let me take my app and I'm going to shove it into the end and I'll never think about it again. So what's the change in mindset? How do you make sure that it's not just, you know, stick it in there and forget about it, but, you know, can move in change which is, you know, really the, the call for today is that I need to be more agile, I need to be able to respond to change? >> That's a great question. And we actually spend a lot of time talking about this with customers. So if we take a step back, you know, it's important to understand the traditional journey most customers are looking at when they're moving to the cloud. I talked about this notion of migrating then modernizing. Oftentimes, you know, before the advent of VMC on AWS, you didn't have the ability to take those two apart, you had to migrate and modernize simultaneously. In order to move to the cloud, you actually had to do a bunch of refactoring and retooling and so forth to your application. And obviously, that created a lot of challenges because it slowed how quickly customers can move up to the cloud. And so what we've done, which I think is really, really powerful is kind of broken those two apart. To say, you know what, you may have a business imperative to get out of the data center, we can help you do that, we can move, you know, some customers moved hundreds of workloads a week, up to VMC on AWS. And then once you've done that, you're now a little bit more breathing room, right? You've gotten out of your immediate business problem, and let's say in this case, closed-ended data center. And now you can sort of focus on okay, how do I think about modernizing these applications? How do I think about the interior points to opening them up and actually getting inside of them? And so I think, you know, the most valuable aspect of the approach that we've taken here is that ability to, to separate out those two to get the quick business wins that you need. And then to take the time to think about, okay, how do I actually modernize this? How do I want to? What sort of technologies do I want to use? How should I do this right, rather than just need to do this quickly? And so I think that's a really, really powerful aspect of our approach, and that we can give customers more optionality in terms of how they approach their modernization efforts. >> Yeah, so, so Kit, the final question I have for you, the VMware AWS partnership has been around for a couple years now. >> Yeah. >> What would you say is the biggest change technically, from when the solution was first announced, just to where we are today with all the new updates that you've talked about? >> Yeah, that's a great question. Look, it's hard to pick one, right? I think the biggest thing in general, is just the increasing maturity of this offering. And that goes really across the board, technical maturity, operational maturity, compliance, certification maturity, right? Getting more and more of those under our belt, global reach maturity, right? We started off in one region, but now we're all over the world, pretty much every region that AWS has. You see more and more features, you know, we're constantly releasing new features, new hardware types. And so I think that's really the biggest thing. It's not been like one singular thing, what has been is just a lot of work by the team across 1000 different areas, and moving all those in parallel. And that's really been the heavy lift that we've had to do with the past few years. You know, as we talked about, it was a lot of work just to get this thing out in the first place, right? We had to do a lot of technical work with AWS to enable this bare metal-capability. And so we got that one out, we got it out and had that initial service. There have been a lot of limitations, right? We just had one instance type, only one region, you know, didn't have as many compliance certifications. So obviously that limited the number of customers initially, right? Just because there are some restrictions around that. So our goal has really been to open this up to as many customers, in fact, every customer, all of our 500,000 odd vSphere customers to be able to move to VMS on AWS. And so we're slow, you know, slowly but surely, every month knocking down more and more barricades to that, right? And so what you're seeing is just a tremendous explosion of innovation and effort across the entire team. And so it's really it's kudos to the team for their continued effort day in day out of these past three years or so, to get VMC on AWS to where it is today. >> Excellent, well, thank you so much, Kit. Great to talk to you. Congratulation to the VMware and AWS team. And of course, looking forward to talking to more of the customers down the road, as they take advantage of this, hopefully at Vmworld, and some of the Amazon shows too. Thanks so much for joining us Kit. >> Thank yous Stu. >> All right, stay with us for lots more coverage, of course VMware Cloud on AWS really exciting and interesting topic we've been covering since day one. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)