>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube. Covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Welcome back to The Cube's continuing coverage of AWS re:Invent 2017. We're live from Las Vegas, day three. There's still a ton of people here. We have a great guest next and we're excited to talk about Mark Kelly, the director of Cloud and Infrastructure Services Architecture, talking with myself, Lisa Martin, and my co-host Stu Miniman. Mark, welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you, glad to be here. >> So Scripps Networks, tell us a little bit about that. I know a few things, HGTV, Food Network, I watch those a lot but, tell us a little bit more about Scripps Network. >> So Scripps, when I say that name, most people do not know it. But we are the leading provider of home, food, and travel content for broadcast, the web, and for emerging technologies at this point in time. So, we've got a lot of brands in our umbrella. You said HGTV, we've got Food Network in there, Cooking Channel, DIY Network, Great American Country, and Travel Channel. >> Yeah so Mark, I know my family binges a lot of these shows so-- >> Really? >> As do I. >> Take us little bit, you know, what's happening in that industry today? You know binging versus watching online, cloud, digital, the joke of course is that at least things are pretty stable and not changing in your world, right? >> Oh I know, absolutely. It is changing on a very rapid pace so, as more and more people, you know, the big buzzword is that cord cutting thing. We have got big concern in out industry around that. But as more and more people talk about it, we're adapting our technologies to be there just to provide for them. So we're on those emerging technologies. We're on all of the said top boxes. Apple TV, Roku, we're actually developing networks specifically for those technologies. So we're trying to adapt. The broadcast world is still our bread and butter, so until we figure out the revenue models for these new technologies, we're gonna be in the broadcast world for some time. >> So Mark, talk us through a little bit of what's your role there. You've been there six years I believe you said. How has Cloud changed the way Scripps works. >> So, Cloud has definitely changed the way we work. When I first came on board, Scripps was looking for a way to move the business faster. Scripps, because it is changing so rapidly, they're in the business of-- They have to compete with startups. And when they're competing with startups, startups don't have the same process as it controls around everything that the bigger enterprises do. So it was an extreme challenge to them. And you know, when they don't understand-- They don't have budget concerns like big enterprises either. When I go in to do a project to launch a new network, they don't understand it. I've got to buy hundreds of thousand dollars worth of hardware or whatever associated with it. So when we're looking at the Cloud, we needed a way to accelerate that. We wanted the make the business process much quicker. We weren't going to have those lead times for purchasing hardware, purchasing software, getting licensed, you know, racking it, stacking it, doing all that. We were looking to ways to move that out of the way so everybody could focus on providing more value for the business. And that was the primary reason we actually started looking at the cloud. >> So from an end user goal perspective, obviously you mentioned speed and having to compete with other networks and other native original content companies. How does the end users demand for 24 by 7 content, how does that drive really, the pace of innovation that Scripps has to meet? >> Yeah that is a very good question. I think we're still trying to figure that out because the whole consumption method for all of our end users is changing. They're going from their traditional TV to where they're watching it on their phone, to switching to their iPads, to everything else in between. So we're developing technology methods so that we're providing it for them as they need it and want it. >> Yeah, Mark can you give us a snapshot of what is your infrastructure look like today? What are the kinds of major things that have changed and what's kind of on the table? >> Today we are running about 3000 instances in AWS. So AWS is our primary cloud provider. We run a lot of auto scaling to take into account our seasonal loads. That's probably one thing that we-- One of the challenges we had going into the cloud is that we were up against certain times of the year when the load was extremely high but it was only extremely high for a couple of weeks. I mean literally we'll be running at two to three hundred percent of what normal was, and it would do it for two to three weeks. So we were having to purchase hardware in advance for that and it would just sit there idle for the rest of the year. So we were looking to ways to avoid that excess purchase and still scale to support our consumers and needs. >> So when you started this journey, and we were talking to Veeam earlier about-- Cloud is a destination, you get there, great, you're done. But when you start this journey you mentioned AWS and we're here at re:Invent, where did you start? What were some of the stakeholders that you had (Mark laughs) on the business side that you had to say, >> Absolutely. >> Alright guys, let's come to the table, we have a great opportunity here, this industry is transforming, as you know, the joke Stu made earlier. Where did you start with those business discussions? >> So I think it was more around trying to figure out that solution. It's like when I said earlier we're trying to get to market quicker. So it was easier to go to the stakeholder and say, "Hey I think I can go this route, and I think I can get you to market twice as fast." >> Lisa: Their ears perk up? >> Oh absolutely. Ears will perk up, eyes will light up. They're like, "Really? How much more is this gonna cost me?" And I'm like, I don't think we're gonna-- They went to represent the on-demand cost models. I think we don't have to do all these big upfront costs and that got a little bit more excitement out of the stakeholders. And we went forward from there. So we would um-- It took a while. Don't get me wrong. Everybody gets set in their ways. They're going to do things normally. Change sometimes is difficult to push through. >> Lisa: Absolute-- Cultural change. Very, very challenging. >> Absolutely. So it is a complete cultural change. They go from your traditional on-premise to the cloud model where you're not managing the hardware as much. You're focusing on the engineering around it. >> So Mark, you bring up managing. You know, monitoring something that's gonna change very differently. Talk a little bit about your people, you know, the skill sets they had to change, what's the difference is kind of before, during, and after that migration. >> So beforehand, when we were on our on premise environment, we were focused on tool sets, for monitoring, and managing infrastructure that were very vast. I mean we had a large number of them. One of our goals moving to the cloud was to consolidate that tool so that we wanted to get down to a minimal set that would actually accomplish our goals to get everything that we needed. So we didn't have to go through training people to learn 50 different tool sets for monitoring whatever it was. Network equipment, storage equipment, or the computer equipment. We were actually focusing on monitoring our applications and still getting some of that underlying infrastructure reporting on our monitoring, but we didn't have to have the same level where we were monitoring the hypervisors, we were monitoring the network switches, that kind of went away. So our focus became more on the operating system up and engineers developed. They no longer had to focus on that hardware. >> So what are you using for that, you know, how many people does it take to do that? Do you know if it can kind of compare to what you had before, yeah. >> Our standard monitoring switch is actually composed of New Relic. New Relic has been a great partner for us. They had the same mindset as us. We're looking to compete with the startups, at the time New Relic was the startup. Because we've been using them for between five and six years now. We brought them in because they had that same hunger and mentality that we were looking for. Their culture mashed really well. And we got in and deployed all of their suites to every environment. We actually leverage it in from development up through production. So we try not to separate our monitoring. We try to keep it all uniform so out troubleshooting gets a lot simpler. We actually have the same people monitoring our DeckStats that are monitoring out production stats. So they can troubleshoot and help get through there. It became a lot easier for them to do that. >> Could you talk about kind of, how many people you had, managing infrastructure before versus the monitoring, and some of the training they had to go through or? >> Before, it was all specialized people. I don't even have that. I couldn't even give you the headcount cause most of that was before my time. >> Stu: Yeah. >> But every individual was actually specialized on each application for monitoring. So it was actually teams that would focus on each part of the business. So as we migrated into cloud, we became more standardized. Made it simpler. We actually have our-- My cloud team is really in between about 15 to 20 people. And we're managing 3000 instances in AWS, and about six petabytes of storage. We've got quite a bit of a content up there already. >> And you're on the customer advisory board for New Relic. >> Mark: I am. >> You mentioned cultural alignment between Scripps and that vendor, and that's really key, but talk to us about this collaboration and it sounds-- Maybe by direction of that, you're able to maybe influence some of the things and help them make their technologies better. >> Absolutely, we've got a really good relationship with them so anytime we have a challenge, one of our current challenges is serverless. As we move, we have a lot of development teams that want to move into serverless. We've been working with the New Relic teams and giving feedback to them on what our challenges are with that, and how we're monitoring it, cause we've got certain things where I wanna be able to monitor those functions in serverless, and I'll need to give a cost back to my stakeholders to say this is what you'd cost. It's challenging to do that now but we're working with the New Relic team to help them deliver some of that knowledge to us. >> Mark, you hit a hot button for me. So bring us inside, you know, why serverless, and what are you hoping to gain from that. I've seen New Relic actually has been tracking for the last couple of years, adoption of containers in serverless so-- >> Containers in serverless is kind of the new hotness you know. We've been moving into serverless primarily because again, it's the next generation of speed for us. Makes it even simpler for the developers to get started, we can give them a standard framework, they can start developing their code and just push deploy and it's running, and they don't have to worry about any infrastructure or managing anything. Again, the challenge has been the monitoring part of it, but working through that and actually getting pretty good results out of it so far. >> So you've got about 70% of your consumer facing side is on AWS which has got some latency sensitive workloads that are still on-prem? >> A hundred percent of my consumer facing properties are on AWS. >> Oh fantastic. >> We do have some workloads that-- Those are really not designed for cloud. It's our end use, end financial systems, our critical business systems that need to be close to those departments. Those actually still live on-premise for us. When we started this journey, the on-premise was-- it was a slow, horrible process but, as we evolved, the cloud, they've evolved that on-premise stuff to keep us with them as well. We're actually looking at, so you know, some of the other monitoring solutions out there. New Relic has been an option for us to actually look at on-premise will, monitoring as well. >> So all the advancements that you guys have achieved in your six year or so transition to cloud that you've talked about. What's next for Scripps? What are some of the maybe new business opportunities that this optimization, cost reduction is enabling? >> So next for us is actually machine learning and AI. We have large initiatives going on that right now. We are trying to analyze our video, analyze our content, lots of it's to help remove some of the manual processes that we have now. Because a lot of that stuff when you're delivering to our different partners, there's certain requirements around the video, and the only way to do it right now is with eyeballs watching the videos. So is this somebody sitting there watching it for hours and hours a day. We're leveraging the machine learning stuff to actually auto classify this video, pull out thumbnails for the authors so they can put it in there, the metadata awareness form, and we're doing lots of things with AI. So we're looking for that to be a really hot feature for us in the next couple of years. >> Excited with what you heard this week from AWS about AI in ML? >> Absolutely. The first day keynotes were completely blown away. They were all things we were looking for. >> Stu: Anything specific that you've been waiting for, or just not waiting for, but got excited by? >> Yeah there was lots of it. The Kinesis video streams were actually really good. The video API, I'm drawing a blank on the exact name of it, but that one actually had some really good features for us because we are looking to do exact things that that one does. We're looking to pull time stamps out for when stuff shows up in videos and provide that back to our end users where they can search and find things in the videos much more quickly. >> Excellent. Well Mark, thanks so much for stopping by The Cube and sharing what you guys have been doing at Scripps Network with us. >> Mark: No problem. >> It sounds like you've seen a massive transition and you're really have a great foundation to continue going forward and >> Thank you. >> Lisa: And we look forward to continue to watch great shows on the network. >> Awesome, thank you guys. >> And for my co-host Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin. We would like to thank Mark for stopping by. You're watching The Cube's continuing coverage from Las Vegas of AWS re:Invent 2017. Stick around guys, we'll be right back.

>> Announcer: Live, from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Summit 2017, brought to you by Amazon Web Services. (bouncy techno music) >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBE, live in San Francisco at the AWS Summit here. I'm Lisa Martin, joined by my co-host Jeff Frick. Our next guest is from Sumo Logic. We have the VP of Product Marketing, Kalyan Ramanathan. Welcome to theCUBE! >> Thank you very much. Very excited to be here. >> Very excited to have you here. So, tell us a little bit about what Sumo Logic is doing with AWS and machine data. What services are you delivering, who's your target audience, all that good stuff. >> Yeah, absolutely. We are a cloud native, i.e., SaaS-based, machine data analytics platform, and what we do is to help our customers manage the operations and security of their machine-critical applications. Right, so we are an entirely AWS-based customer, we've been using AWS since our inception. What we do is to provide machine data and machine learning so that our customers can manage the performance of their applications, right. So, what is machine data, you might ask. So machine data typically includes logs, metrics, events, anything that your application is generating when it is running, when it is serving the enterprise's customers. And what Sumo Logic excels at is to ingest this data. We collect and ingest this data, and then we apply a lot of analytics on that data. We have some patented machine learning technologies that helps us correlate this data, get insights from this data, and then using this data, our customers manage the applications that they are providing to their end customers. >> And it's not just their applications that are co-located at AWS with your application, it's beyond that, I assume. >> Absolutely, I mean, we have customers from, you know, very different walks of life, we have customers who are on-prem, customers who are down the hybrid path and moving to AWS, and customers who are on an AWS. You know, I can rattle off a queue of great names, Pinterest, Twitter, Airbnb, are examples of customers who are born in the cloud. They run on AWS from the very get-go. And they use us today to manage the security and performance of their applications. We have other customers who have migrated to AWS, Scripps Network, the guys behind HGTV, it's a great example of a customer who was running applications in their on-prem data center, and then one day decided that they are a content company, and they don't want to be running their own data center. >> Right. >> And so they wanted to move their applications to the cloud, and they used Sumo Logic to help migrate their applications to AWS. >> What are some of the barriers that you help customers overcome when it comes to maybe that daunting task of migrating services? >> Yeah, that's a great question. You know, the first thing that someone has to do before they start to migrate their applications to the cloud is to understand what is it that they have within the data centers, right. If I don't know what I have, how do I even migrate that to the cloud? The first task is obviously provide visibility into what is within their data center. And that's where Sumo Logic comes in, right. If you deploy Sumo Logic, and if you implement Sumo Logic as a SaaS service, the first thing that we do is to provide you complete visibility into your applications. All the application components, the infrastructures that the application is deployed on, the services that the application may be using. The next thing that you want to do is start to migrate your workload to the cloud. But you want to do this in a very thoughtful way, and what that means is that you start to move your applications and your infrastructure to AWS, but then you do this cut of work to AWS, only when you are convinced about the performance as well as the security of that application in this new environment. So the ability to baseline what you have in your current environment, and then compare it to what it might look like in this new environment within AWS is extremely critical, and what Sumo Logic helped Scripps Network do is to essentially compare and contrast how they are performing in this new environment. And when they were extremely comfortable that their security and their performance was no less in this new environment compared to what they were doing in the data center, they were able to flip that switch and complete the move over to AWS. >> You guys are in an interesting position, because you were born in AWS, essentially, cloud-native, and you have a lot of customers that are running in AWS. And so you guys did a survey, a report, really kind of taking a look at what's actually happening with cloud-native companies running their apps in AWS. I wonder if you can kind of give-- What did you guys find in this thing? >> Yeah, absolutely Jeff. And this is, the report that we put out towards the end of last year, I think is one of the first start leadership reports that gives, you know, people in AWS, a birds-eye view into how are their peers, you know, deploying, architecting, and managing their applications within the AWS environment. So, how did we put this report together? Sumo Logic has over 1200 customers under management today and more than 80% of our customers are, you know, using AWS today. They are implementing their applications within AWS. So what we did was to anonymously mine data from our customers, and publish a report that provides the set of best practices, and the commonly-used techniques and architectures that, you know, the leaders are doing and implementing today as they move to AWS. Now there were some great learnings that we found out as we put this report together, alright. First and foremost, we discovered that the stack, that a customer typically deploys in AWS, is very unlike the stack that they deploy within their on-premise data center. So, how does that work out? I mean, so, many of the AWS customers that we mined here, happen to use Docker extensively within their AWS environment. In fact, 18% of our customers, this was last year, already are using Docker, you know, for the production application. Which is pretty amazing, given that Docker is just, you know, two or three years-- >> Well hopefully Solomon and Ben are watching, we actually have another crew with Docker-- >> Absolutely. >> Right now. >> We'll have to report that back. >> You know, Docker is all the rage, no doubt about, and we are seeing, you know, increased adoption of Docker across the board, among all of, for AWS customer. The other thing that we found very interesting was that the applications that you may typically expect to succeed in your data center, are not quite doing that well in the AWS world. I'll give you a good example, in the database world, you would expect to see Oracle and SQL Server, you know, ruling the root within a typical data center today. You go on AWS, that's not the case at all. The NoSQL databases, right, are the leading vendors of databases within the AWS world. MongoDB, Redis, you know, are well ahead of Oracle and SQL Server when it comes to AWS. When it comes to web server technologies. You know, Nginx and Apache, you know, are well ahead of IAS, which happens to be the web server of choice within the data center world. Now we've also seen, you know, pretty amazing adoption of Lambda Technologies within AWS. I mean, that's to be expected, a certain bit, because I know AWS is definitely pushing it, but again, 12% use it within a production environment. You know, one year into Lambda, GA in some sense, is pretty astonishing numbers, so-- >> What was your takeaway? Was it because of the applications that are deployed, is it because, kind of, historical legacy of what Amazon offered, kind of for an on-prem versus an on-prem, you know, those early business decisions, not so much today, but, you know, years ago, when there was the security and public cloud, you know, it was a very different conversation three years ago. What were some of your takeaways as to the why? >> The takeaways that I think, there's a meta takeaway here, and let me start with that. The meta takeaway is that as people are building applications in AWS, native AWS applications, or as they are migrating their applications from an on-prem data center to, let's say, AWS, this is giving IT architects the opportunity rethink how their applications are constructed. You know, they are no longer bound by the old shackles of, if I have to use a database, it's Oracle or SQL Server. If I have to use a IIS web server, it's IIS or some other option. >> Right. >> So, once you are unchained from these shackles, you have the ability now to rethink and re-architect your application from scratch to target and to focus on this amazing new world that the cloud, you know, offers. So that's the, that's a big meta takeaway for us, and, what we have learned is that once you are unbound, you can come up with new technologies and new ways of doing things that are adopted and better suitable for this new space. That's one. The second thing that we do see, obviously, is that the vendors of yesterday are not yet focused on the cloud technologies. It may be heresy to say this, but, you know, Oracle has not found a cult religion until very recently. And that's why you see Oracle as not doing a lot, or not making a dent in, you know, in cloud places or in cloud technologies like AWS. >> Right, right, it's just interesting, that procurement angle, because, as anyone who's ever been at a relatively small company, trying to sell into a big company, one of the biggest hurdles is actually just getting on the procurement list, becoming an approved vendor. So, it's interesting to think about that from the other side as a consumer. That if now you are unshackled from the approved vendor list, and you, because if now the only approved vendor is Amazon, and now you have this whole breadth of things to choose from within that ecosystem, that, how that could really impact your behavior and what you actually buy, build, and deliver. >> Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great point too. I mean, there are economics involved here, there is the friction of adopting certain technologies to AWS, which also makes it a little harder to adopt some of the more traditional software applications in the AWS world. Now that's why AWS obviously has come up with the notion of a marketplace, and Sumo Logic, you know, we face the same challenges when we are signing up customers, right. We have some big-name customers who, you know, if we have to sell into those customers, you know, we have to get into their procurement list, we have to, you know, go through a few rigamaroles-- >> Jeff: Right, Right >> To even get into that list. That's where, you know, getting into the AWS marketplace has really helped us a lot. Now you have one vendor, you have one relationship, you have one payment terms, and that vendor is already on your approved list. And so, hey, Sumo Logic comes along with the rights. >> So, definitely a simplification there, which was one of the themes in the keynote this morning, as well as this unshackling. What are your objectives for the report, are you going to be either going back to some of your existing customers or to new customers to show them all of these best practices that you've developed? >> Yeah, I mean, I think our goal of this report, obviously, first thing from us is to make this an annual report, we plan to do this every year, write it on reinvent. And what we want to do is to provide our community, who are mostly AWS shops today. We do have a few Microsoft Azure customers, and we are starting to see some Google Cloud platform customers too. But what we want to do is become the hot leader, who not only serves his customers, but also provides them a road map, in terms of, you know, how should they be adopting these cloud technologies. >> Jeff: Right. >> What are their leading-edge peers like the Twitters and the Airbnbs and the Pinterests of the world starting to do. Obviously, in a anonymized way, we don't want to be calling out any of our customers by name, but here is how you need to think about architecting your applications in the cloud. There is an opportunity, as we said, to, you know, break open from the chains of the past, redo this. We want to help our customer redo this well. >> I'd love to get your perspective, what are the, you know, and I think we're past the security and some of those kind of historic impediments, to you will, to public cloud adoption, but one of the ones that still comes up all the time is the rent versus buy, and you know I think it goes back to the tested roots of, yes, it's great to rent for awhile, but at some point in time, when you hit some scale-- >> Kalyan: Right. >> The business model flips and now it's more economical to buy and operate your own. But what we see in the slide that Werner showed today, there's plenty of customers, Netflix, of course always being the flagship, that are giant, and must have a giant AWS bill every month, who have chosen to still leverage them as their IT platform, and not flip the switch to a purchase. So you know, kind of either from the survey or anecdotally with your own customers, and you as a company, you know, what impacts that decision and do you have, like this review every couple of years, when those CFOs go, "Ah, we're paying these guys a lot of money," should we build our own stuff, but clearly you haven't gone that route. >> I mean, there are definitely enterprises who are still on-prem today, I think the last stat that I heard from Gartner is that 20% of enterprises have flipped over to public cloud infrastructure. 80% is still running things in the cloud, you know, within the data center, maybe a private cloud or maybe in the traditional old ways of running applications. But that tide is definitely turning. And what we see from many of our customers is that there are many reasons for customers or enterprises to now start adopting public cloud. Economics is obviously one, I mean, there is a big advantage of going from Capex to Opex, it obviously makes a lot of sense to do that. The second thing is that what we see is that it's not just about moving the application to the cloud, it's also having the right tooling around the application that can now allow you to manage that application, manage the performance of that application, the security of that application, the deployment of that application in the public cloud environment. And that has taken a while to mature, and I think we are already there, I mean, in an event like this, you can see so many companies come up with new, innovative ways of managing applications within the public cloud environment. And I think we are there now, I mean, the pendulum has swung, and we have enough technologies now to do this with a very high level of confidence. The third thing I would say, and you know, we keep hearing this from our customers again and again, and you know, I brought up Scripps as a great example, you know, we just did a public webinar with a company called Hootsuite, and, you know, they are a social media management platform company, and one of the comments from the Hootsuite VP of Operations was very telling, he said, "Look, I can do this, I can run my own stuff, but do I really want to do it, right? I am a social media company, I want to provide the best application to my customers. I'm not in the business of running a management technology, you know, on-prem or even, for that matter, you know, within the four walls of the company itself. What I want to do is focus on where I can deliver the best value to my customer, and that is by delivering a great social media application." >> Lisa: Exactly. >> "And I want to let the infrastructure game, the management game to the experts," right. >> Focusing on their core competencies to really drive more business. >> I mean I think we are definitely starting to see that, there are certain verticals that have adopted this, you know, wholeheartedly, retail is a good one, media is a good one, there are also cost pressures in those verticals that are forcing them to adopt this at a much faster pace. Financial is kicking and screaming, but they are also getting on board. >> But definitely from a thematic perspective, you talk about maturation, maturation of the services, maturation of the technologies, and maturation of the user. So we want to thank you so much for stopping by theCUBE, great to have you here. >> Thank you very much, I mean, it's been a great conversation with you guys, and it's a great event. >> Excellent, well for my co-host Jeff Frick, I am Lisa Martin, you're watching this on theCUBE live in San Francisco as the AWS Summit. Stick around, we'll be right back. (bouncy techno music)