>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017. Brought to you by Oracle. >> Okay, welcome back here. We're here live in Las Vegas. This is SiliconANGLE Media's theCUBE. It's our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise, talk to the influencers, the experts, thought leaders, CEOs, entrepreneurs, anyone we can that has data we can share with you. I'm John Furrier, Peter Burr is my co-host for the two days here. Our next is Jay Baer from Convince and Convert, CUBE alumni, great guy, super influential, knows his marketing stuff, perfect guest to summarize and kind of package up what the hell Modern CX means here at the Oracle show. Welcome back, good to see you. >> Jay: Good to see you guys, welcome. >> So you were hosting the CMO Summit that was going on in parallel they had the Marquise Awards which is their awards dinner. >> 11th annual Marquise Awards it's like a thing. >> It's amazing, it looked like the Golden Globes. >> It was beautiful this year, it was like, legit. >> Peter: Is that the one with the O on the top? >> And they delivered an award with a drone. It was a great night. >> Awesome stuff. So give us the package, what's going on, tease out the story here. >> Yeah, I think the story is two-fold. One, Oracle's got an interesting take on the marketing software space because they really are trying to connect it between the overall customer service experience initiative, and then marketing as a piece of that. This event in particular, the Modern Customer Experience event has tracked almost full conferences for marketing, for customer service, for sales and for commerce. So all four of those are the verticals underneath this umbrella and that's a really unusual conference setup but I think it reflects where Oracle's head is at from a thought leadership standpoint. That like, look, maybe were going to get to a point where marketing and customer service really are kind of the same. Maybe we're going to get to the point where sales and marketing really are kind of the same. We're not there yet, by any stretch of the imagination. But I think we all feel that convergence coming. And my world the marketing side, CMO's are starting to get more and more responsibility inside organizations and so if that happens, maybe we do need to start to align the software as well. It's and interesting take on the market, and I think it's sort of prescient for where we're going to head. >> It's interesting you mention of all those different silos, or different departments or different functions in a digital end-to-end fabric experiences are all about the customer, it's one person, they're going to have different experiences at any given time on that life cycle, or product spectrum or solution spectrum. So the CMO has to take responsibility of that. >> Well, I feel like somebody has to be responsible for it. Mark Hurd said this in one of his remarks over the course of the show, the CEO of Oracle said look, there is no data department, everybody has to be responsible for data but somebody has to figure what the ins and the outs are and maybe that's the CMO, maybe it's the CXO, I don't think we've fully baked that cake yet. But we're going to have to get to the point where the single record of truth about the customer and their customer journey has to exist and somebody's got to figure out how to wire all those together. We're gettin' there. >> It's so funny, I was joking, not here on theCUBE, but in the hallways about the United Airlines snafu and I'm like, to me as a kind of a developer mindset software should have solved that problem. They never should have been overbooked to begin with. So if you think about just these things where the reality of a consumer at any given time is based upon their situation. I need customer support, I need this, I need that. So everyone's got to be customer ready with data. >> Talk about relevance, relevancy is the killer app, that's it, right. Relevancy is created by technology, and with people, people who actually know how to put that technology into practice in a way that the customers actually care about. So, one of the things that Mark said, he said look, here's the issue, it's not about data, nor is it about clout, it's not about any of that. It's about taking that data and creating understanding out of it. But he said a really interesting thing, he said what we have to do is push those understandings out to the front lines where somebody on the front lines can do something with it that actually benefits the customer. I think that's a really smart point because so often right now we're talking about, oh we've got these data stores, and we've got DMP's and we've got all these things. That's great but until that gets manifested at the front lines, who cares, you've just got a big pile of numbers. >> We had Katrina on from the commerce side, it's funny, she was making a retail comment look, they don't care about the tech, they don't care about blockchain and all the speed and feed, they have to do a transaction in the speak of the consumer. And the language of the customer is not technology. >> No they don't care, solve my problem right. Just solve my problem, and I don't care how you solve it, what sort of magic you have behind the scenes, if I want a sweater, I want this sweater, and I want it right now. >> OK, Jay, share with the audience watching right now and us conversation hallways you've had, that's always the best because you had a chance, I'll see ya on the big stage doing your hosting thing, but also you get approached a lot people bend your ear a lot, what's happening? >> You know what's been an interesting theme this week is we've made such great advances on the technology side and I think we're starting to bump up against okay well now we've got to make some organizational changes for that technology to actually flourish. Had a lot of conversations this week with influencers, with CMO's, with attendees about, I really want to do this I really want to sort of bring sales and marketing together or commerce and sales, et cetera. But our org chart doesn't support that. The way our company thinks, the way our people are aligned, does not support this convergence. So I think were it an inflection point where we're going to have to like break apart some silos, and not data silos, but operational, what is your job, who manages you and what is your bonus based on? There is a lot of legacy structures, especially at the enterprise that do not really facilitate. >> John: Agile. >> Cross-departmental circumstances that we're looking for. So a lot people are like, oh wow, we're going to have to do some robust organizational change and that ain't easy. Somebody's going to have to drive that. Your marketing practitioners, which is my world, they can't drive that. That's got to come from up here somewhere. >> And also people got to be ready for the change. No one likes change. But we were taking about this yesterday called Add the Agile process into development being applied to marketing, really smart. >> Oh, all the time so many marketing teams now are using Agile and daily Scrum and Stand-ups and all those kind of things as opposed to Waterfall which everybody's used forever I think it's fantastic. >> Yeah, and that's something that we're seeing and Roland Smart had to point, he had a book got a signed copy Peter and I, but this is interesting, if you of Agile, to your point, you just can't read the book you've got to have a commit to it, organizational impact is Agile. >> One of the things we had a CMO Summit, we had 125, 150 CMO's from all around the world and one of the things we talked about in that session yesterday was, jeeze, we need to start taking people or hiring people out of a software development world, people who have Agile experience and put them as PM's on a marketing team. Which is going to put that group of people have the Agile background in even greater demand. Because they won't just be doing tech roles for project management but also marketing project management and sort of teaching everybody how Agile works. I think it's really interesting. >> But they've been doing that for a while. I mean the Agile, Agile started in software development but moved broader than that when it went to the web. >> No question, but a lot of these CMO's do not have those type of skills on their team today. They're still using a Waterfall. >> Or they don't recognize that they have the skills. Because most of them will have responsibility for website, website development, so it's that they don't again, it goes back to. >> Web versus marketing. >> Yeah, they probably have it somewhere, they just don't appreciate it and elevate it. >> It's silo'd within the marketing team. >> It's silo'd within the marketing team. So there's going to be, these are the consequence of changes. We'll see the degree to which it really requires a whole bunch of organizational stuff. But at the end of the day, you're right, it's a very very important thing. What are some of the other things you see as long as we're talking about it, other than just organizational. >> Actual other sort of baseline skills. It wasn't that long ago that your social media teams and contact marketing teams, it was manifestly a written job you made things that were rooted in copy. Now we talked a lot about, you have to have like a full video team on your marketing org chart because the core of the realm now is video content and while companies are getting there it's still a struggle for a lot of them. Should we have our agency do this, should we get somebody else to do it, they're like now I got to have all these people, I got to have video editors and camera crew. >> It's expensive. >> Of course it is, yeah. Not everybody can be theCUBE. >> We'll they're tryin'. No, but I think video's been coming down to the camera level you see Facebook with VR and AR certainly the glam and the sex appeal to that. Then you got docker containers and software development apps, so I call that the app culture, you've got the glam, apps, and then you've got cloud. So those things are going on so are the marketing departments looking to fully integrate agency-like stuff in house or is the agency picking up that? What's your take on the landscape of video and some of these services? >> It depends on how real-time they're thinking about video. We're starting to Facebook Live in a public relations circumstance. You saw when Crayola announced the death of the blue crayon or whatever it was a few weeks ago. They did a press release on that, but the real impetus for that announcement was a Facebook Live video. Which puts Facebook and live video as your new PR apparatus. That's really interesting. So in those circumstances the question is do we do that with the agency, is it easier to do it in-house. I think ultimately my advice would be you have to have it in both places. You have to be able to do at least some things in-house you have to be able to turn it quickly and then maybe for things you have more a lead time, you bring in your agency. >> One of the things we're seeing and just commenting while we're on this great subject, it's our business as well, is content is hard. Good, original content is what we strive for as SiliconANGLE, wikibon and theCUBE is something that we're committed to serving the audience at the same time, we collaborate with marketers in this new, native way so that the challenge that I see, and I see in this marketing cloud, is content is a great piece of data. >> Content is data. >> Content is data. >> And it also helps you get more data because there is a lot of data exchanged. >> So a lot of companies I see that fail on the content marketing side, they don't punch it in the red zone. The ball's on the one yard line all they got to do is get it over the goal line, and that's good content, and they try to fake it. They don't have authentic content. >> Another way of saying that John. >> John: They blew it on the one yard line. >> Yeah, another way of saying that is the historically agencies have driven the notion of production value. They have driven the notion of production value, to make the content as expensive as possible because that's how they make their money. What we're talking about is when we introduce a CX orientation into this mix now we're talking about what does the customer need in context, how can video serve that need? It's going to lead to, potentially, a very very different set of production value. >> You bring up a good point, I want to get Jay's reaction on it because he sees a lot too. Context is everything so at the end of the day what is engaging, you can't buy engagement, it's got to be good. >> What serves the customer. >> John: And that is defined by the customer, there is nature of reality silver bullet there's no engagement bullet. >> Sometimes you can argue that the customer values a lower fidelity content execution because it has a greater perceived authenticity. >> You may not know this Jay, I'm going to promote us for a second. A piece of video that's highly produced in the technology industry generates attention for a minute and a half to a minute and 45 seconds. theCUBE can keep attention for 12 or 13 minutes, why? >> John: We have interesting people on. >> If we were a digital agency. >> I would say the hosts, obviously. >> The hosts, the conversation. >> It's back to relevancy. >> It informs the customer. And that's what, increasingly, these guys have to think about. So in may respects, we'll go back to your organization and I want to test you in this, is that in many respects that the CMO must heal thyself first. By starting to acknowledge that we have to focus on the customer, and not creative and not the agency, and rejigger things so that we can in fact focus on the customer and not the agency's needs for us to spend more. >> There was, one of the great conversations in the CMO Summit was this point that, look, with all this technology we have all the opportunities and darnit, all we're doing is finding other ways to send people a coupon. Like isn't there something else that we could use this technology for. And what if we just flip the script and said what do customers genuinely want? Which is knowable and certainly inferable today in a way that has never been historically why don't we use that data to give them what they want, when they want it, how they want it, instead of constantly trying to push them harder. >> Focus on value and not being annoying. >> I mean I wrote a while book about it. >> Well your key point there, is that you're going to infer and actually get signals that, we've never been there before. Chatter signals. >> But let's use them for good not evil I think is the subtext there. >> Yeah, don't jam a coupon down their throat. >> But as Mark says it's hard because CEO's are under tremendous pressure to raise top line in an environment that is not conducive to that. You're going to have to take share. The economy is not growing so fast that you can just show up and grow your company. CEO's have tons of pressure, they're then droppping that pressure on the CMO who then says you need to grow top line revenue. So the CMO says we've got all this technology I guess we'll just send out more offers we'll have a stronger call to action and as opposed to using this information, the inferences, the data, to be more customer focused. I think in some cases we're being less customer focused which, if anything is short-sighted and at worst is a cryin' shame. >> So the solution there is to use the data to craft relevant things at the right time to the right people. >> And it will work but it requires two things that a lot of organizations simply don't have. Time and courage, right. It requires time and courage to purposely push less hard. Because you know it will payoff eventually you've got to buy into that, and that ain't easy always. Sometimes it's not even your decision. >> What we don't want is we don't want to automate and accelerate bad practices. At the end of the day what CMO's are learning, this conversation came out yesterday is, jeeze maybe marketing really isn't that good. Maybe we have to learn ourselves from what this technology is telling us, what the data is telling us and start dramatically altering the way we think about marketing, the role that marketing plays. The techniques we use, the tactics we use, that will lead to organizational changes. I'm wondering, did you get a sense out of the session that they are in fact stepping back and saying we got to look in the mirror about some of this stuff. >> Absolutely, absolutely. I thought it was remarkable, considering who runs this company, Mark Hurd, came in and did a little Q&A at the CMO Summit and he said, And this is the guy who runs Oracle, who's puttin' this who thing together and is sellin' tons of marketing software and says look guys, I'm not even sure if what we're doing here is right because we've got all this technology we have been doing this for a long time, we've got all these smart people and still, what's our conversion rate, 1%? If we've got the greatest technology in the history of the world, we supposedly know all this about customer service and customer journey mapping and our conversion rate is still 1%. Maybe something identified fundamentally broken with how we think about marketing. I thought for somebody in that role to come in and just drop that on a group of CMO's, I was like whoa. >> I think he's right. >> Totally right. >> But to have a CEO of a company like this just walk in and say here's what I think. >> This is a question for you and I'll ask it by saying we try to observe progressive CMO's as a leading indicator to the comment you mentioned earlier, which is flip things upside down and see what happens. What are you seeing for those progressive CMO's that have the courage to say ya know what, we're going to flip things upside down and apply the technology and rethink it in a way that's different. What are they doing? >> One of the markers that we see on the consulting side of my business is CMO's who are thinking about retention first. Not only from a practical execution layer, but even from a strategic layer. Like, what if we just pulled back on the string here a little bit and just said how can we make sure that everyone who's already given us money, continues to give us money and moreso. And essentially really turn the marketing focus from a new customer model, to a customer retention and customer growth model, start there. Start with your current customers and then use those inisights gained and then do a better job with customer acquisition. As customer service and marketing start to converge, mostly because on online. Online customer service is very brand driven and more like marketing. As this two things are converging we're seeing smart CMO's say well what if we change the way we look at this and took care of our own first. Learn those lessons and then applied them outwardly. I think that's a real strong marking signal. >> It's a great starting point and it's almost risk free from a progressive standpoint. >> It's not always risk-free inside the organization. >> I mean it's harder to get new guinea pig customers to like see what works, but go to your existing customers and you have data to work with. >> But wouldn't you also say that the very nature of digital which is moving the value proposition from an intrinsic statement of the values in the product and caveat emptor, towards a utility orientation where the value's in the use of it, and we want to sustain use of it. We're moving more to a service to do that and digital helps us to do that. That the risk of taking your approach goes down because at the end of the day, when you're doing a service orientation you have to retain the customer because the customer has constantly got the opportunity to abandon you. >> Yes the ability to bail out is very very easy these days I completely agree. But what find is that it makes sense to us. It makes sense to us on theCUBE, but in the real world it's not. Not everybody's drinkin' that punch yet. >> John: And why? >> I don't know. >> Sounds like courage. >> It is definitely courage is one of 'em because you're essentially saying look, I've been taught to do marketing one way for 40 years or 20 years. >> Yeah, I'm going to lean on my email marketing all day long. >> Yeah, I'm going to keep pressing send. It's easy, there's almost no net cost. So there's that. And also just the pressure from above, I think. From the CEO to grow top line, net new customer revenue, I think that's certainly part of it. And some if it, I think we went back to earlier about org charting and skills and resources. There's a heck of a lot more people out there at every level of the marketing organization who are trained in customer acquisition moreso than customer retention. How many MBA's are there in customer retention are there? Zero. How many MBA's are there in marketing and sales? >> Lot of 'em at Amazon. >> A thousand? >> A lot of 'em at Apple. >> Yeah, but they were trained there. They didn't come in like that, so they trained them up. >> Jay, great to have you on theCUBE. Great insight as usual, and I think you're right on the money. I think the theme that I would just say for this show, and agree with you is that if you look at Oracle, you look at IBM, you look what Amazon is doing Microsoft in some way maybe a little bit, but those three, data's at the center of the value proposition. Oracle is clearly saying to the marketers, at least we want to say digital it's end to end if you use data, it's good for you. This is the new direction. If you think data-driven CMO, that seems to be the right strategy in my mind. >> The best quote in the CMO Summit, you guys need a CUBE bumper sticker that you can manufacture with this. Data is the new bacon. I was like, oh I love that, that's the best right. >> Who doesn't love bacon. Jay, great to see you. Real quick, what's up with you, give us a quick update on you're opportunities what you're going these days. >> Things are great, running around the country doing fantastic events just like you guys are. Working on a new content marketing master class for advanced marketers on how to take their content marketing strategy to the next level. That launches in a couple of weeks. Continue to do four or five podcasts a week, a new video show called Jay Today where I do little short snippets three minutes a day. JayToday.tv if you want to subscribe to that. >> Beautiful, Jay Baer, great on theCUBE great thought leader, great practitioner, and just a great sharer on the net, check him out. I'm John Furrier with Peter Burr here at Oracle Marketing CX more live coverage after this short break.