>> Narrator: Live, from New Orleans, Louisiana, it's theCube, covering .NEXT conference 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> It's not the critic who counts. Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles. Or where the doer of deeds, could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena. Whose face is marked by dust, and sweat and blood. Who strives valiantly, who errors, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error in shortcoming. But who does actually strive to do the deeds? Who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause. Who, at the best, knows in the end of the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Those words by Theodore Roosevelt were in this morning's keynote by Dr. Brene Brown. Welcome to theCube's coverage of Nutanix.NEXT 2018. I'm Stu Miniman, with Keith Townsend here to break down, give our critiques as well as understand that Nutanix, while they are a public company, been striving and succeeding greatly. 5500 people here at this conference, very enthusiastic, great party last night, so Keith, we talked about it, our show opened yesterday, been your first show, got to talk to a bunch of customers, talked to a bunch of partners. Give us impressions and overall experience. >> So you know, you can't go to a show like this and not get hero numbers. 70,000 people in the Nutanix community program. 61,000 certified individuals. Customers making statements such as, Nutanix, humble company, Nutanix, not feeling entitled to the sale. Needing to work for the dollar. Customers extremely excited about the announcements, the direction of the company for key core areas I saw from a technology perspective, in which they made some really aggressive announcements and bets. So you know what, this has been a very high energy conference. >> Yeah, absolutely, talk about, from a financial standpoint, they're doin' well. Wall Street's been rewarding them greatly for the move to move to software only. Company's over nine billion dollars in market cap. Amazing. Had to go for a thousand customers a quarter. Very good for the space that they're playing in. Things like their file system, AFS, their fastest growing products. Building on that base infrastructure, but then yes, as you said, bold direction, they've got the kind of three axises that they're trying to build on. Build out HyperVage's support, build out cloud support. They're going to talk about how we think, where Nutanix fits in this cloud world. Building out their software portfolio. Where do they have IP, where are they growing? They've done four acquisitions so far in the software space. Some of those are starting to show through. We did interviews with the former CEO of Minjar and it NetSill, and- >> Bot Metric. >> Yeah, yeah that's the Netsill Bot Metric piece there. So products that are now, some of them are shipping. And as well as getting some vision. They had their first SAS product in Beam. Really interesting, something that really was targeted at AWS and Azure. Not the data center, but they're trying to make that hybrid-hybrid message as well as giving some of the vision. Nutanix Era is a big directional piece. Project Sherlock. Of course the big brains here working on that. Really interested in Edge and IOT. So a lot of pieces there, what's your take? >> You know what? I think I'm a bit overwhelmed actually. Which is a great thing, you look at COM was over the past couple of months, their Com platform was evened out by adding micro-segmentation. Which, against their biggest competitor VMware was a essential piece. They've been unabashful with going after it. You know what, AHV can now compete head-to-head with VMware just as long as you don't need memory over commit, and metro clustering that AHV, the term that they use in "game on." So Nutanix is, you know we talked to Duraj, a couple of years on theCube, asked him, you know what, is Nutanix a platform company? He say, you know what, no, (mumbles) too humble to accept that mantle of being a platform company, there's a lot of work to do. You look out onto the show floor, 80 partners and sponsors, who are all offering solutions tied to AHV. Which we talked about a little bit. A lot of adoption, but it doesn't seem like there's much VMware. Market penetration and stealing customers from VMware as much as HyperV. There're a lot of customers we talked to we said, you know we tried HyperV on Nutanix, not so much so we went to AHV. >> Quick point, and I felt a few years ago, the conversation wasn't about HyperV when you talked about Microsoft. It wasn't the, for years it was, when will it catch up to what VMware's doing? VMware's still dominant in the space, customers here, and lots of 'em are usin' Vmware. Yes, there's that tension between Vmware and Nutanix, but Nutanix, do they poke and prod a little bit at some things? Yes, but at the show, very much focusing on what they're doing, and focusing on their customers, not sending pot shots or anything like that. But when it comes to Microsoft, you're right Keith, there were a number of customers I talked to that were like, well in a Microsoft shop, and we know what applications used to live on VMware. Number one thing was always Microsoft. Many of them, I tried HyperV, didn't really like the experience. And therefore it was a smooth path to go over to AHV. Lot's of customers that are doing both VMware and AHV and sorting that out. And it's like oh, well over time, if Nutanix becomes 80, 90, even some of them gettin' towards 100% of heir deployment, AHV becomes a bigger piece of the portfolio. >> And you know, we thought that this whole multi-HyperVisor argument was over. Like, you know what, just go to one HyperVisor. A lot of Nutanix customers are showing that multi-HyperVisor is a legit way to go that we haven't ran with anyone who said, No, we're having management pains, running AHV side-by-side with VM or Vspare. >> I would like to see from Nutanix, more partnerships with Microsoft though. You talk Azure, absolutely huge growth, number two out there. Yes, they support it, but you know, of course they have much more showing at the Amazon show. They've got a strong partnership with Google. Got to highlight that with the Brian Stevens interview. And know that later this year, as Zai really starts to roll out, that we will see much more of that. But Azure, not only in the public cloud piece, but Azure's stack is starting to grow. I've been talking to Lenovo, HP, Adele, Cisco, all of them have pent-up demands, service writers that are starting to roll at Azure's stack. And while Azure's stack really is kind of a closed ecosystem there, I think there is opportunity for Nutanix to play in there, I expect them to hear from the customers who'd love them to do more with Microsoft. We heard from customers that they'd actually love to hear Nutanix do more with Redhat, and in general be a deletega system, yes, show floor, it's growing, it's vibrant but absolutely, it's always, what more? >> OF course, we always, and I think we get our friends at Nutanix always pokes us about staying positive. But it is a positive, they're a software company now. And as a software company, you have to integrate with other software company services. The Azure stack thing, while it's mainly a hardware play for companies like Dale, Lenovo, Fujitsu, there has to be software integration. The folks with the Google and Nutanix partnership, did a really great job of doing push-button, at least showin' us on stage, push-button deployments of VM's, from Zai to Nutanix instances in the cloud. This is Nutanix in the cloud. That won't probably play with Azure and Azure Stack. So Nutanix really needs to figure out a way to get into that relationship with Microsoft. >> Yeah, true simplicity takes genius, is a quote that I had out of this show in the early years. And Nutanix will make a bold claim. Oh, database migration, we're going to make that really easy. Well, show me (laughs) Anybody that's worked with databases- >> That's like sayin' DR is easy. Yeah, gettin' the stores from one point to another one is easy. Processes, not so much. >> Some of that Project Sherlock, oh yeah all that tensor flow, cumbrineties, functions of the service, we're going to make it push-button easy so that we'll make that invisible. How much is a distraction, what's in the weeds? You know, the networking, there's so many pieces in there that love the vision. Of course customers want it simplified, but we want to talk to the customers, and understand what works, what still needs to be tweaked, where do they have to build out some services, partnerships, even more than they've done today to go further, what have you been seeing and hearing? >> So, Nutanix, the enterprise cloud company. I've poked at the whole cloud marketing term. Matter of fact, on Twitter, one of the, I'll read this. Cloud really, no AI, no databases or severs. No server-less, does that even, doesn't even have a presence at Cubrineties events. Fake cloud story for IT, ah! So you know what, let's pick that apart a little bit. DV as a service, they announced basically yesterday, that's there. AI, Satium Gatupum said a really nice story with Sherlock there, absolutely looking at it. Cubrineties integration, ACS, 2.0 will come out the gate as a Cubrineties manage distribution. They announced Zai integration with Cubrineties and push-button. Now you may pick on the cloud part. Nutanix still very much talks to the infrastructure group. Their customers are the infrastructure group, and you can't talk cloud without having a relationship with application developers. So I think the next step as Nutanix matures, these offerings on, their cloud offerings, is that they have to start to have a deeper relationship. They have to go side-by-side with their IT sponsors and organizations to start to have conversations with application developers. >> Yeah, and I love the online, the cloud-eraderie if you will, out there. Well, we understand, this is the architecture of the future. Where it should go, I love hangin' out with the cloud native crew. But for me, it goes back to talking to their customers. And when the customers, if they're like here's what we've done, here's the proof as to how I get faster time to market, how I'm accelerating my development teams insight. I'm creating, one of the interviews we did, IT as business, is how we run things. These are real digital transformation stories. Impressive stuff, and it's cloud. And it's not virtualization with a little layer on top. It's real change inside customers, and Nutanix, I'll say, as a platform to help us get from where I've been, to where I'm going. >> Yeah, absolutely. Obviously, Nutanix customers are not listening to the cloud-eraderie. They absolutely love the platform. You know Stu, I don't think I've run into a negative customer at the show. I haven't run into a customer that says, you know what, Nutanix isn't meeting my need in X or Y area. Home Depot won the innovation award at the show. Then Home Depot is a forward thinking customer, truly embracing parts of the platform. I'm sure there's some cloud native pieces. >> They're a big Google cloud platform customer. One of Pivotal's big one on GCP. So absolutely, and we have, I've talked to a number of customers big on Amazon, developer shops, absolutely public cloud to piece of it. Yeah, if the criticism I should have, I always look and say, if I said public cloud and private cloud, where's your center of gravity? Of course Nutanix is going to go, leaning a little bit more towards the data centers, hosted service providers. That's where they live today. But they're not blind to it, they're embracing it. They have a full SAS product, they're going to be expanding that. They are software at their core, distributed architectures where they're going. >> You know Stu, one of our favorite comments is that, company X likes to move, moves at the pace of the CIO. I think it's safe to say, Nutanix is a little bit faster than the CIO. And they're enabling the old stuff. You know what, let's make that push-button easy, and as we're looking, have a eye to the future, looking at the new stuff, let's see how we can get there, push-button easy. There's a lot of work to do. But I think they're making some really interesting and probably the right moves for their customer base. >> Aright well, Keith, first of all, I want to thank you for all of your help here this week. The CTO advisor, always great to dig in with customers. Really get in, it's been exciting to watch you kind of get to know a little bit more about this. I've had the pleasure of tracking Nutanix in the really early days, been at every one of these shows. It is a great community, kudos to Nutanix. Thank you for sponsoring us, and if not familiar, if you look at the bottom of the videos we're playin' right now, we mention who sponsors, we're tryin' to be transparent. Keith and I though, we're out here in the field. If you have questions for us, or you know, want us to ask something, or question what we're doing, hit us up, we're really easy to reach on Twitter. Always happy for feedback from the community. And as always, check out thecube.net for all the upcoming shows, everywhere we're going. For Keith Townsend, I'm Stu Miniman, thank you so much for watchin' theCube's presentation from Nutanix.NEXT 2018 in New Orleans, and see you at lots more shows. (futuristic music)

(upbeat instrumental music) >> Presenter: Live from New Orleans, Louisiana, it's theCUBE, covering dot .NEXT Conference 2018 brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, SiliconANGLE Media's live production of Nutanix .NEXT Conference here in New Orleans, Louisiana. I'm Stu Miniman joined by my co-host Keith Townsend. Happy to welcome back to the program, also fresh off the keynote stage, the founder, CEO and Chairman of the publicly traded, Nutanix. Dheeraj Pandey, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you, thank you for your time by the way. >> Dheeraj, it's always a pleasure. One of the things we say about theCUBE is we want to take those conversations that we're having at events in the industry and share them out, and we've had the opportunity to have many of them over the years. So to start off with, when you take us back, some of the keynote you say five years ago couldn't really predict what was going to happen now. Yet I talked in our open here, the first interview that we did with you back in 2012, talking about the challenges over time in distributed architectures, it's more real today than it was back in 2012. Cloud has matured and is a little bit more nuanced today. The application space is exploding and changing more than ever. I guess inside a little bit, when you talk about the vision that you had for Nutanix, any major learnings on things that have surprised you along the way? And what things have played out exactly like you thought they would? >> Well, let's start with the easy one, which is the way things have played out, what we wanted them to play out like. I think the idea of commoditization of hardware, the fact that things will become pure software, all these hardware devices should look like apps was one of our sort of big prognosis early on, like six, seven, eight years ago. And largely, everybody is talking about software-defined everything. And that's not to say that hardware doesn't play a role, it's just that it becomes more invisible in the sense that with software running on top, and the fact that you have economies of scale coming with standardization in hardware, a lot of things will move to pure software. That's really worked out well. Disaggregation has worked out well in our favor. The fact that you'd stop buying big things and you start small and pay zero. I think consumerization has really, I mean and this is a word that is a cliche in many senses but what does it mean to have consumer-grade experience of enterprise grade systems, which is a paradox in itself to say that if consumer-grade experience with enterprise grade systems, but I think that has turned out really well for us. And in the staying power of everything eventually is can you build reliable systems? Can you build highly available systems? I mean, because building trust with the enterprise is really hard, and there's lots of startups that has come and gone, that have over-promised and under-delivered, and I think that's one of the things that has really worked in our favor to be really methodical and robust with the way we build our systems, especially the backend systems. And it's showing up in the front end of the world. Surprise, surprise, I think the fact that it's mega distributed now, not just distributed because distributed over LAN is one thing, but distributed over WAN is a very different thing altogether and you need to really think about the basic tenets of computer science, about state and migration and caching. And a lot of this is coherency, consistency, availability, network partitioning, there's a lot of things you need to think about in a very different way than you used to think about on a LAN itself, so... >> Yeah, I want to drill into one of those things. The move to a software model, you and I talked since the early days and Nutanix, at its core, it's software that you do. Changing how people think and consume and boy, getting the financial arm of companies, your channel partners, your salespeople and your customers, that's a challenging piece there. There was one of the customers I've already talked to this week that said one of the things we always had was I buy stuff and you tend to over buy and you could never kind of shrink down. Now, I go to a software model, I have a certain piece of it that I really understand and then I buy, and I can even kind of dial back as needed. Maybe explain some of the nuances and some of those changes. You know, how's the field doing with this? How's the channel adopting to this, and any customer stories? >> Yeah, I think there's, especially for ambitious companies, there's always a Netflix moment, there's always an Adobe Omniture moment. Look at these companies 10 years ago, Adobe was a $3 billion company in 2007. But they said we need to dramatically look at consumption model as the big differentiator going forward actually. Even though they had digitized blockbuster and Hollywood videos and so on, they said it's not enough. We need to digitize even further. I mean, Apple had digitized music with $0.99 songs, but the music player itself needed digitization, and I think that's what happened with iPhone bringing a music player on as an app itself. Photographers digitized, you know because you could now do JPEG files back and forth in emails, but the camera itself made further digitization and the camera became an app. So I think there's multiple layers of digitization that needs to happen. I think as a company, we've digitized a lot of hardware devices. But as a company, we had to digitize ourselves even further. This is our digital transformation. The fact that you can consume Nutanix in ways that are even more invisible, the fact that you can try out Nutanix, kick the tires on Nutanix, run it in your favorite server that you want. And then after you like it, you call us. You know, all of a sudden, the sales funnel is warmer because whenyou look at sales funnel, you don't need people up there to really go do a POC and kick the tires and technology and so on. So software provides access, which is probably at the core of an operating system. If you don't have access, if you don't feel distributable, then you'll always stay at the mercy of the appliance gravity. Because appliance's gravity, it's hardware, you need to ship things as physical objects being shipped, there is logistics, there is capital expenditure, there's a lot things involved that really keeps you sort of anchored to the bottom. And the only way to unleash this is to really bring more digital delivery models, and software is one such thing. Now our sales teams like starting this quarter, are being paid on software only as opposed to on the hardware itself. And we're doing things in the channel that makes it really unique because the customer experience doesn't have to change. In some sense, we're really saying can we have the cake and eat it too? And that's what we're really doing so that the two north, which is customer experience, doesn't take any kind of hit while we can actually look at going and selling the value of software itself. And as you know about Xi, I mean, just doing software alone is just the first step towards digital transformation. And the further digitization is, when nothing is visible on-prem for Nutanix, everything is totally invisible and you can swipe a credit card, you can sign up in a matter of seconds, I think that is where the real epitome of digitalization will be for the company. >> So let's talk about the impact of becoming a software company. I love some of the stories that he says, the ability to download software and kick the tires. I've seen some really geeky stuff, people running prism on bare metal clouds, there's use cases that I didn't really consider. What are some of the more interesting things that your partners and customers are doing that you didn't expect? Like, what's the surprises? >> Well, it starts with the tinkerers. The most important thing about any good software company is tinkerers do things that you never imagined you could do. And it comes down to API, then it comes down to access. Like I have an app on my iPhone, it's called iBeer. Now Apple opened up its oscilloscope, its accelerometer, its compass, and now you can basically fill up beer in your iPhone and you can drink it and it burps for you as well. I don't think the company knew that when it opens up an API. You know, what other possibilities, what kind of apps people will build? I think community addition has been at the core of access for us. People can just download it on an Intel NUC and do things with it. In fact, the NUC is part of a drone now so you can actually have an entire data center in a drone, and the drones can replicate to each other and failover from each other. In fact, we're talking to a lot of very large oil and gas and remote vertical organizations, which are really looking for what does it mean to miniaturize a datacenter? And then at the same time, do very serious stuff in it, back it up, encrypt it, compress it, replicate it, all sorts of things, even put event processing. Like, how do you put a Casca bus on a mini PC-sized server, I think, palm-sized server? These are all the things that we hadn't imagined three, four or five years ago. But the fact that Nutanix can be shrunk wrapped into a palm-sized server, it takes this possibility to the edge, to the next level, actually. >> So the show floor is growing, you hit on API, critical part of building an ecosystem to becoming a true platform player. What are some of the more impressive parts of growth from (mumbles) ecosystem? >> I would bring it back to all the applications. We've done a tremendous job of applications on Nutanix. So if you look at north, south and east, west, I always look at things north, south, east, west, north, south is apps and hardware. So hardware platforms and apps on top of us. I think we've done a really good job with that. East, west, you know, look at data protection, business continuity, security. A lot of those companies are actually part of our overall ecosystem. And we still are not happy. I think we have to do an even better job. But what's the MuleSoft equivalent in infrastructure? Nobody thinks of integration in the operating system world today. It's mostly point-to-point. Okay, I am Nutanix, you're Arista, we'll do point-to-point. I am Nutanix, you are F5, we'll do point-to-point. What if there's a real event bus where you could just publish topics and you become a radio station? There's TiVo and because you can go back in time, look at three days ago what events happened and so on. There's a whole aspect of putting a multicast tree of events that becomes a real groundswell of integration between different kinds of appliances, virtual appliances, physical appliances, hardware below us, software above us. I think that has yet to happen in the industry. And a lot of our developers are now talking about like what's the MuleSoft for Nutanix? So I think there's a lot of innovation that infrastructure has not seen because we always think differently than apps. What if we thought like app companies? We'd do things like app companies. And you'd see us in the next couple of years do something really interesting with, build a system bus which are the pub/sub like model as opposed to a RESTful request/response-like model actually. >> Dheeraj, gives us a little more color on some of those partnerships. I've seen Google and IBM on stage in the past. You're now over a billion dollars in revenue, public company, so I have to imagine some of these companies treat you a little differently. And the ones I kind of initially want to hear of, but you're welcome to run with it is, the server players and the cloud players is, how you see, how much can it just be we do our thing and how much do they need to work with you? >> Yeah, absolutely. Well a billion is still a small number. We're more like VMware of '07. And VMware of '07 was still a test and dev company by the way. They hadn't done anything production at all. People are still tinkering with databases and Microsoft apps and so on in '07. So we are small, we're still not a very big company. I think there's a lot of headroom for us in the coming years. The thing is that we've taken the tougher route by the way. Tougher route being we didn't have to sell ourselves to EMC, which is what VMware did. If you think about it, that asset was worth 60 billion eventually. Was sold for 600 million. It was a 100x smaller price to EMC. Because they actually seeded the ground on go to market. (mumbles) It's really hard, we need EMC to go and really do the distribution in peace. And as a company, we said no, no, I think there is value in building go to market on our own. I mean, look at our cap table. Our cap table is clean, we have dual class, voting structure and things like that. The things that VMware would die for, looking at from a financial investor point of view that we have that they don't, because we took the tougher route to really come to build a business. Now if you talk about hardware companies below us, and when I said below, I don't mean pejoratively, but you know, the stuff that runs underneath us, >> Stu: Southbound. (chuckles) >> I think NX has been a great way to build a market because if you hadn't done supermicro, we wouldn't be here actually. I mean, this architecture would have been a child's play, a science project, foreign tinkerer, most of them what it has become over time because the server vendors took note. They said, oh you can actually come and displace me? I would rather work with you because there's a lot of value we can bring to the table as well. So in that vein I think what we've done with Dell, what we've done with Lenovo, what we are doing with IBM, Fujitsu, and what we're doing with HP's and Cisco's channel partners, there's a lot of regional love that's forming on the ground with HP's and Cisco's channel partners and sales people because sales people are less political than headquarters. And think about strategy tax that headquarter face versus what sales people do. Sales people, I just saw a tweet, I think you talked about an HPE sales guy saying, you've got to bring Nutanix to the table because they really respect market forces. For them, market forces are most powerful actually. And above us and in the cloud, I think definitely a lot of work that we're doing in Google GCP. But I think you know, as bare-metal opens up from these other providers, we probably would be very interested to see exactly how Nutanix Xi works in bare metals of these public cloud providers. >> So you guys disrupt yourself. There was NX, business was doing fine. You guys are starting to build a reputation to being able to support the large enterprise with NX, some of the logistic challenges that you had as a small organization you were starting to overcome, but you decided you know what, you're going to untether yourself, let's zoom out of the industry. If you looked at the industry and say you know what, the advantage that Nutanix has because we're willing to disrupt ourselves, what are the tethers that remain in the industry that you're happy to go before your customers and say you know what, Nutanix doesn't have these tethers and if we did, we'll easily disrupt ourselves again. What's the competitive advantage? >> Hmmm, I think it's a great question. In fact it is the competitive advantage to say that the glass is half-full and it's not a zero-sum game. Because there's two kinds of people in the world. There's the zero-sum mindsets people who actually always think that if somebody is winning, the other must lose. And then there's growth mindset people who actually feel like of course legacy will get disrupted, but the new guys will actually make further progress, future progress. So as a builder, there's a bias in me and many of us out there in Nutanix that you need to have a growth mindset. And then the growth mindset, just giving a software to an OEM partner doesn't mean that it will shrink yours. It's possible that there's going to be more word-of-mouth, and the market forces will actually appreciate that. I mean, eventually, if somebody had a great relationship with Dell, Lenovo or HP or Cisco or IBM, we'd love to do business with them. And we have to relax some constraints because at the end of the day, this is still not our cloud. Now in Xi we can do whatever we want. But when we're walking to the customer, saying we want to build a cloud with you, with you is an important work. It's not for you, it's with you. And with you would mean that we'll have to bend a little bit backwards to relax the constraints away. And that's exactly what we've done. No one else has done this. Same is true for hypervisors. I mean, look at VMware. We go in there and we don't start talking about VMware right away. Like you know what, let's talk about architecture, let's talk about migration, let's talk about security, automation, and some day we'll certainly talk about whether you need to pay for a hypervisor. I think we'll do the same things with data protection and other things we're doing networking and so on. We're not going to just come in and say this is us and nothing else matters. API is everything. I mean, think of consumer companies. They've always competed with their partners and they've done a good job at it. They're like, look, at the end of the day, Spotify, their competitor, Apple music competes with it, but I'm not going to not give them a level playing field. Google Maps, Apple Maps compete. Keynote, Number, Pages competes with Microsoft Office. And I think the best companies are very good at being comfortable. Amazon the retailer, they fulfill more than I would say half their things not from their warehouse but someone else's warehouse, and both parties make money, actually. It's the growth mindset that creates large companies. >> Dheeraj, you're a technical founder, have great success with the company. You know, it's still one of the things I've loved in our journey on theCUBE, is being able to document companies that we knew from the early days and got over 2,500 employees now. >> Dheeraj: Actually, more than 3,500. >> 3,500. Congratulations. As you talk to people in the Valley or your travels around the world, what advice do you give to potential future entrepreneurs, people that are sitting like you did in the early days and have a vision for the future? >> Well, I've gotten a little more philosophical about organizational building. At the core of companies that are building and growing over time, is how do you keep reducing friction? And it's not just friction with customers and partners, also friction within. Because orgs grow and you need to, if you look at organisms, you know we have mitosis where cells divide themselves and become smaller cells and even smaller cells and so on. There's a division of labor, there's specialization, there's all sorts of things that actually happen as organisms themselves. I think an org is like an organism. And over time, there's a lot of accumulated stress that develops. And if you don't really go and address it, you're not a company, you're basically a business that doesn't understand culture. So what I talked about with a lot of entrepreneurs is really fuzzy words like how do you become authentic in what you do? Like, I was in Bloomberg and I talked about the difficulties with Xi. At the end of the day, most people, maybe not the 10, 15, 20% impressionables, but most people appreciate authenticity. And we're like, that is vulnerable, and being vulnerable is the best way to build a relationship actually. So I talk about vulnerability and trust and organizational design and reducing friction and things of that nature because once you are so many people, it's all about reducing friction. >> All right, well Dheeraj, one of the things people I know love about this show is you bring speakers that get us thinking authenticity. Hopefully one of the reasons why you bring theCUBE to the event. So thank you so much for joining us again. Always a pleasure. >> Pleasure. >> All right, Keith Townsend and I, Stu Miniman, will be back with lots more coverage here of the Nutanix .NEXT Conference 2018 in New Orleans. You're watching theCUBE. (technorock music)