>> Announcer: From Berlin, Germany, it's the Cube covering Dataworks Summit Europe 2018. Brought to you by Hortonworks. (electronic music) >> Well hello welcome to the Cube I'm James Kobielus. I'm the lead analyst for big data analytics within the Wikibon team of SiliconANGLE Media. I'm hosting the Cube this week at Dataworks Summit 2018 in Berlin, Germany. It's been an excellent event. Hortonworks, the host, had... We've completed two days of keynotes. They made an announcement of the Data Steward Studio as the latest of their offerings and demonstrated it this morning, to address GDPR compliance, which of course is hot and heavy is coming down on enterprises both in the EU and around the world including in the U.S. and the May 25th deadline is fast approaching. One of Hortonworks' prime partners is IBM. And today on this Cube segment we have Mandy Chessell. Mandy is a distinguished engineer at IBM who did an excellent keynote yesterday all about metadata and metadata management. Mandy, great to have you. >> Hi and thank you. >> So I wonder if you can just reprise or summarize the main take aways from your keynote yesterday on metadata and it's role in GDPR compliance, so forth and the broader strategies that enterprise customers have regarding managing their data in this new multi-cloud world where Hadoop and open source platforms are critically important for storing and processing data. So Mandy go ahead. >> So, metadata's not new. I mean it's basically information about data. And a lot of companies are trying to build a data catalog which is not a catalog of, you know, actually containing their data, it's a catalog that describes their data. >> James: Is it different with index or a glossary. How's the catalog different from-- >> Yeah, so catalog actually includes both. So it is a list of all the data sets plus a links to glossary definitions of what those data items mean within the data sets, plus information about the lineage of the data. It includes information about who's using it, what they're using it for, how it should be governed. >> James: It's like a governance repository. >> So governance is part of it. So the governance part is really saying, "This is how you're allowed to use it, "this is how the data's classified," "these are the automated actions that are going to happen "on the data as it's used "within the operational environment." >> James: Yeah. >> So there's that aspect to it, but there is the collaboration side. Hey I've been using this data set it's great. Or, actually this data set is full of errors, we can't use it. So you've got feedback to data set owners as well as, exchange and collaboration between data scientists working with the data. So it's really, it is a central resource for an organization that has a strong data strategy, is interested in becoming a data-driven organization as such, so, you know, this becomes their major catalog over their data assets, and how they're using it. So when a regulator comes in and says, "can you show up, show me that you're "managing personal data?" The data catalog will have the information about where personal data's located, what type of infrastructure it's sitting on, how it's being used by different services. So they can really show that they know what they're doing and then from that they can show how to processes are used in the metadata in order to use the data appropriately day to day. >> So Apache Atlas, so it's basically a catalog, if I understand correctly at least for IBM and Hortonworks, it's Hadoop, it's Apache Atlas and Apache Atlas is essentially a metadata open source code base. >> Mandy: Yes, yes. >> So explain what Atlas is in this context. >> So yes, Atlas is a collection of code, but it supports a server, a graph-based metadata server. It also supports-- >> James: A graph-based >> Both: Metadata server >> Yes >> James: I'm sorry, so explain what you mean by graph-based in this context. >> Okay, so it runs using the JanusGraph, graph repository. And this is very good for metadata 'cause if you think about what it is it's connecting dots. It's basically saying this data set means this value and needs to be classified in this way and this-- >> James: Like a semantic knowledge graph >> It is, yes actually. And on top of it we impose a type system that describes the different types of things you need to control and manage in a data catalog, but the graph, the Atlas component gives you that graph-based, sorry, graph-based repository underneath, but on top we've built what we call the open metadata and governance libraries. They run inside Atlas so when you run Atlas you will have all the open metadata interfaces, but you can also take those libraries and connect them and load them actually into another vendor's product. And what they're doing is allowing metadata to be exchanged between repositories of different types. And this becomes incredibly important as an organization increases their maturity and their use of data because you can't just have knowledge about data in a single server, it just doesn't scale. You need to get that knowledge into every runtime environment, into the data tools that people are using across the organization. And so it needs to be distributed. >> Mandy I'm wondering, the whole notion of what you catalog in that repository, does it include, or does Apache Atlas support adding metadata relevant to data derivative assets like machine learning models-- >> Mandy: Absolutely. >> So forth. >> Mandy: Absolutely, so we have base types in the upper metadata layer, but also it's a very flexible and sensible type system. So, if you've got a specialist machine learning model that needs additional information stored about it, that can easily be added to the runtime environment. And then it will be managed through the open metadata protocols as if it was part of the native type system. >> Because of the courses in analysts, one of my core areas is artificial intelligence and one of the hot themes in artificial, well there's a broad umbrella called AI safety. >> Mandy: Yeah. >> And one of the core subsets of that is something called explicable AI, being able to identify the lineage of a given algorithmic decision back to what machine learning models fed from what data. >> Mandy: Yeah. >> Throw what action like when let's say a self-driving vehicle hits a human being for legal, you know, discovery whatever. So what I'm getting at, what I'm working through to is the extent to which the Hortonworks, IBM big data catalog running Atlas can be a foundation for explicable AI either now or in the future. We see a lot of enterprise, me as an analyst at least, sees lots of enterprises that are exploring this topic, but it's not to the point where it's in production, explicable AI, but where clearly companies like IBM are exploring building a stack or a architecture for doing this kind of thing in a standardized way. What are your thoughts there? Is IBM working on bringing, say Atlas and the overall big data catalog into that kind of a use case. >> Yes, yeah, so if you think about what's required, you need to understand the data that was used to train the AI how, what data's been fed to it since it was deployed because that's going to change its behavior, and then also a view of how that data's going to change in the future so you can start to anticipate issues that might arising from the model's changing behavior. And this is where the data catalog can actually associate and maintain information about the data that's being used with the algorithm. You can also associate the checking mechanism that's constantly monitoring the profile of the data so you can see where the data is changing over time, that will obviously affect the behavior of the machine learning model. So it's really about providing, not just information about the model itself, but also the data that's feeding it, how those characteristics are changing over time so that you know the model is continuing to work into the future. >> So tell us about the IBM, Hortonworks partnership on metadata and so forth. >> Mandy: Okay. >> How is that evolving? So, you know, your partnership is fairly tight. You clearly, you've got ODPI, you've got the work that you're doing related to the big data catalog. What can we expect to see in the near future in terms of, initiatives building on all of that for governance of big data in the multi-cloud environment? >> Yeah so Hortonworks started the Apache Atlas project a couple of years ago with a number of their customers. And they built a base repository and a set of APIs that allow it to work in the Hadoop environment. We came along last year, formed our partnership. That partnership includes this open metadata and governance layer. So since then we worked with ING as well and ING bring the, sort of, user perspective, this is the organization's use of the data. And, so between the three of us we are basically transforming Apache Atlas from an Hadoop focused metadata repository to an enterprise focused metadata repository. Plus enabling other vendors to connect into the open metadata ecosystem. So we're standardizing types, standardizing format, the format of metadata, there's a protocol for exchanging metadata between repositories. And this is all coming from that three-way partnership where you've got a consuming organization, you've got a company who's used to building enterprise middleware, and you've got Hortonworks with their knowledge of open source development in their Hadoop environment. >> Quick out of left field, as you develop this architecture, clearly you're leveraging Hadoop HTFS for storage. Are you looking to at least evaluating maybe using block chain for more distributed management of the metadata in these heterogeneous environments in the multi-cloud, or not? >> So Atlas itself does run on HTFS, but doesn't need to run on HTFS, it's got other storage environments so that we can run it outside of Hadoop. When it comes to block chain, so block chain is, for, sharing data between partners, small amounts of data that basically express agreements, so it's like a ledger. There are some aspects that we could use for metadata management. It's more that we actually need to put metadata management into block chain. So the agreements and contracts that are stored in block chain are only meaningful if we understand the data that's there, what it's quality, where it came from what it means. And so actually there's a very interesting distributor metadata question that comes with the block chain technology. And I think that's an important area of research. >> Well Mandy we're at the end of our time. Thank you very much. We could go on and on. You're a true expert and it's great to have you on the Cube. >> Thank you for inviting me. >> So this is James Kobielus with Mandy Chessell of IBM. We are here this week in Berlin at Dataworks Summit 2018. It's a great event and we have some more interviews coming up so thank you very much for tuning in. (electronic music)

(techno music) >> (announcer) From Berlin, Germany it's theCUBE covering DataWorks Summit Europe 2018. Brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Well hello, welcome to theCUBE. We're here on day two of DataWorks Summit 2018 in Berlin, Germany. I'm James Kobielus. I'm lead analyst for Big Data Analytics in the Wikibon team of SiliconANGLE Media. And who we have here today, we have Alan Gates whose one of the founders of Hortonworks and Hortonworks of course is the host of DataWorks Summit and he's going to be, well, hello Alan. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Hello, thank you. >> Yeah, so Alan, so you and I go way back. Essentially, what we'd like you to do first of all is just explain a little bit of the genesis of Hortonworks. Where it came from, your role as a founder from the beginning, how that's evolved over time but really how the company has evolved specifically with the folks on the community, the Hadoop community, the Open Source community. You have a deepening open source stack with you build upon with Atlas and Ranger and so forth. Gives us a sense for all of that Alan. >> Sure. So as I think it's well-known, we started as the team at Yahoo that really was driving a lot of the development of Hadoop. We were one of the major players in the Hadoop community. Worked on that for, I was in that team for four years. I think the team itself was going for about five. And it became clear that there was an opportunity to build a business around this. Some others had already started to do so. We wanted to participate in that. We worked with Yahoo to spin out Hortonworks and actually they were a great partner in that. Helped us get than spun out. And the leadership team of the Hadoop team at Yahoo became the founders of Hortonworks and brought along a number of the other engineering, a bunch of the other engineers to help get started. And really at the beginning, we were. It was Hadoop, Pig, Hive, you know, a few of the very, Hbase, the kind of, the beginning projects. So pretty small toolkit. And we were, our early customers were very engineering heavy people, or companies who knew how to take those tools and build something directly on those tools right? >> Well, you started off with the Hadoop community as a whole started off with a focus on the data engineers of the world >> Yes. >> And I think it's shifted, and confirm for me, over time that you focus increasing with your solutions on the data scientists who are doing the development of the applications, and the data stewards from what I can see at this show. >> I think it's really just a part of the adoption curve right? When you're early on that curve, you have people who are very into the technology, understand how it works, and want to dive in there. So those tend to be, as you said, the data engineering types in this space. As that curve grows out, you get, it comes wider and wider. There's still plenty of data engineers that are our customers, that are working with us but as you said, the data analysts, the BI people, data scientists, data stewards, all those people are now starting to adopt it as well. And they need different tools than the data engineers do. They don't want to sit down and write Java code or you know, some of the data scientists might want to work in Python in a notebook like Zeppelin or Jupyter but some, may want to use SQL or even Tablo or something on top of SQL to do the presentation. Of course, data stewards want tools more like Atlas to help manage all their stuff. So that does drive us to one, put more things into the toolkit so you see the addition of projects like Apache Atlas and Ranger for security and all that. Another area of growth, I would say is also the kind of data that we're focused on. So early on, we were focused on data at rest. You know, we're going to store all this stuff in HDFS and as the kind of data scene has evolved, there's a lot more focus now on a couple things. One is data, what we call data-in-motion for our HDF product where you've got in a stream manager like Kafka or something like that >> (James) Right >> So there's processing that kind of data. But now we also see a lot of data in various places. It's not just oh, okay I have a Hadoop cluster on premise at my company. I might have some here, some on premise somewhere else and I might have it in several clouds as well. >> K, your focus has shifted like the industry in general towards streaming data in multi-clouds where your, it's more stateful interactions and so forth? I think you've made investments in Apache NiFi so >> (Alan) yes. >> Give us a sense for your NiFi versus Kafka and so forth inside of your product strategy or your >> Sure. So NiFi is really focused on that data at the edge, right? So you're bringing data in from sensors, connected cars, airplane engines, all those sorts of things that are out there generating data and you need, you need to figure out what parts of the data to move upstream, what parts not to. What processing can I do here so that I don't have to move upstream? When I have a error event or a warning event, can I turn up the amount of data I'm sending in, right? Say this airplane engine is suddenly heating up maybe a little more than it's supposed to. Maybe I should ship more of the logs upstream when the plane lands and connects that I would if, otherwise. That's the kind o' thing that Apache NiFi focuses on. I'm not saying it runs in all those places by my point is, it's that kind o' edge processing. Kafka is still going to be running in a data center somewhere. It's still a pretty heavy weight technology in terms of memory and disk space and all that so it's not going to be run on some sensor somewhere. But it is that data-in-motion right? I've got millions of events streaming through a set of Kafka topics watching all that sensor data that's coming in from NiFi and reacting to it, maybe putting some of it in the data warehouse for later analysis, all those sorts of things. So that's kind o' the differentiation there between Kafka and NiFi. >> Right, right, right. So, going forward, do you see more of your customers working internet of things projects, is that, we don't often, at least in the industry of popular mind, associate Hortonworks with edge computing and so forth. Is that? >> I think that we will have more and more customers in that space. I mean, our goal is to help our customers with their data wherever it is. >> (James) Yeah. >> When it's on the edge, when it's in the data center, when it's moving in between, when it's in the cloud. All those places, that's where we want to help our customers store and process their data. Right? So, I wouldn't want to say that we're going to focus on just the edge or the internet of things but that certainly has to be part of our strategy 'cause it's has to be part of what our customers are doing. >> When I think about the Hortonworks community, now we have to broaden our understanding because you have a tight partnership with IBM which obviously is well-established, huge and global. Give us a sense for as you guys have teamed more closely with IBM, how your community has changed or broadened or shifted in its focus or has it? >> I don't know that it's shifted the focus. I mean IBM was already part of the Hadoop community. They were already contributing. Obviously, they've contributed very heavily on projects like Spark and some of those. They continue some of that contribution. So I wouldn't say that it's shifted it, it's just we are working more closely together as we both contribute to those communities, working more closely together to present solutions to our mutual customer base. But I wouldn't say it's really shifted the focus for us. >> Right, right. Now at this show, we're in Europe right now, but it doesn't matter that we're in Europe. GDPR is coming down fast and furious now. Data Steward Studio, we had the demonstration today, it was announced yesterday. And it looks like a really good tool for the main, the requirements for compliance which is discover and inventory your data which is really set up a consent portal, what I like to refer to. So the data subject can then go and make a request to have my data forgotten and so forth. Give us a sense going forward, for how or if Hortonworks, IBM, and others in your community are going to work towards greater standardization in the functional capabilities of the tools and platforms for enabling GDPR compliance. 'Cause it seems to me that you're going to need, the industry's going to need to have some reference architecture for these kind o' capabilities so that going forward, either your ecosystem of partners can build add on tools in some common, like the framework that was laid out today looks like a good basis. Is there anything that you're doing in terms of pushing towards more Open Source standardization in that area? >> Yes, there is. So actually one of my responsibilities is the technical management of our relationship with ODPI which >> (James) yes. >> Mandy Chessell referenced yesterday in her keynote and that is where we're working with IBM, with ING, with other companies to build exactly those standards. Right? Because we do want to build it around Apache Atlas. We feel like that's a good tool for the basis of that but we know one, that some people are going to want to bring their own tools to it. They're not necessarily going to want to use that one platform so we want to do it in an open way that they can still plug in their metadata repositories and communicate with others and we want to build the standards on top of that of how do you properly implement these features that GDPR requires like right to be forgotten, like you know, what are the protocols around PIII data? How do you prevent a breach? How do you respond to a breach? >> Will that all be under the umbrella of ODPI, that initiative of the partnership or will it be a separate group or? >> Well, so certainly Apache Atlas is part of Apache and remains so. What ODPI is really focused up is that next layer up of how do we engage, not the programmers 'cause programmers can gage really well at the Apache level but the next level up. We want to engage the data professionals, the people whose job it is, the compliance officers. The people who don't sit and write code and frankly if you connect them to the engineers, there's just going to be an impedance mismatch in that conversation. >> You got policy wonks and you got tech wonks so. They understand each other at the wonk level. >> That's a good way to put it. And so that's where ODPI is really coming is that group of compliance people that speak a completely different language. But we still need to get them all talking to each other as you said, so that there's specifications around. How do we do this? And what is compliance? >> Well Alan, thank you very much. We're at the end of our time for this segment. This has been great. It's been great to catch up with you and Hortonworks has been evolving very rapidly and it seems to me that, going forward, I think you're well-positioned now for the new GDPR age to take your overall solution portfolio, your partnerships, and your capabilities to the next level and really in terms of in an Open Source framework. In many ways though, you're not entirely 100% like nobody is, purely Open Source. You're still very much focused on open frameworks for building fairly scalable, very scalable solutions for enterprise deployment. Well, this has been Jim Kobielus with Alan Gates of Hortonworks here at theCUBE on theCUBE at DataWorks Summit 2018 in Berlin. We'll be back fairly quickly with another guest and thank you very much for watching our segment. (techno music)

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: From Berlin, Germany, it's The Cube, covering DataWorks Summit Europe 2018. Brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Hi, welcome to The Cube, we're separating the signal from the noise and tuning into the trends in data and analytics. Here at DataWorks Summit 2018 in Berlin, Germany. This is the sixth year, I believe, that DataWorks has been held in Europe. Last year I believe it was at Munich, now it's in Berlin. It's a great show. The host is Hortonworks and our first interviewee today is Scott Gnau, who is the chief technology officer of Hortonworks. Of course Hortonworks got established themselves about seven years ago as one of the up and coming start ups commercializing a then brand new technology called Hadoop and MapReduce. They've moved well beyond that in terms of their go to market strategy, their product portfolio, their partnerships. So Scott, this morning, it's great to have ya'. How are you doing? >> Glad to be back and good to see you. It's been awhile. >> You know, yes, I mean, you're an industry veteran. We've both been around the block a few times but I remember you years ago. You were at Teradata and I was at another analyst firm. And now you're with Hortonworks. And Hortonworks is really on a roll. I know you're not Rob Bearden, so I'm not going to go into the financials, but your financials look pretty good, your latest. You're growing, your deal sizes are growing. Your customer base is continuing to deepen. So you guys are on a roll. So we're here in Europe, we're here in Berlin in particular. It's five weeks--you did the keynote this morning, It's five weeks until GDPR. The sword of Damacles, the GDPR sword of Damacles. It's not just affecting European based companies, but it's affecting North American companies and others who do business in Europe. So your keynote this morning, your core theme was that, if you're in enterprise, your business strategy is equated with your cloud strategy now, is really equated with your data strategy. And you got to a lot of that. It was a really good discussion. And where GDPR comes into the picture is the fact that protecting data, personal data of your customers is absolutely important, in fact it's imperative and mandatory, and will be in five weeks or you'll face a significant penalty if you're not managing that data and providing customers with the right to have it erased, or the right to withdraw consent to have it profiled, and so forth. So enterprises all over the world, especially in Europe, are racing as fast as they can to get compliant with GDPR by the May 25th deadline time. So, one of the things you discussed this morning, you had an announcement overnight that Hortonworks has released a new solution in technical preview called The Data Steward Studio. And I'm wondering if you can tie that announcement to GDPR? It seems like data stewardship would have a strong value for your customers. >> Yeah, there's definitely a big tie-in. GDPR is certainly creating a milestone, kind of a trigger, for people to really think about their data assets. But it's certainly even larger than that, because when you even think about driving digitization of a business, driving new business models and connecting data and finding new use cases, it's all about finding the data you have, understanding what it is, where it came from, what's the lineage of it, who had access to it, what did they do to it? These are all governance kinds of things, which are also now mandated by laws like GDPR. And so it's all really coming together in the context of the new modern data architecture era that we live in, where a lot of data that we have access to, we didn't create. And so it was created outside the firewall by a device, by some application running with some customer, and so capturing and interpreting and governing that data is very different than taking derivative transactions from an ERP system, which are already adjudicated and understood, and governing that kind of a data structure. And so this is a need that's driven from many different perspectives, it's driven from the new architecture, the way IoT devices are connecting and just creating a data bomb, that's one thing. It's driven by business use cases, just saying what are the assets that I have access to, and how can I try to determine patterns between those assets where I didn't even create some of them, so how do I adjudicate that? >> Discovering and cataloging your data-- >> Discovering it, cataloging it, actually even... When I even think about data, just think the files on my laptop, that I created, and I don't remember what half of them are. So creating the metadata, creating that trail of bread crumbs that lets you piece together what's there, what's the relevance of it, and how, then, you might use it for some correlation. And then you get in, obviously, to the regulatory piece that says sure, if I'm a new customer and I ask to be forgotten, the only way that you can guarantee to forget me is to know where all of my data is. >> If you remember that they are your customer in the first place and you know where all that data is, if you're even aware that it exists, that's the first and foremost thing for an enterprise to be able to assess their degree of exposure to GDPR. >> So, right. It's like a whole new use case. It's a microcosm of all of these really big things that are going on. And so what we've been trying to do is really leverage our expertise in metadata management using the Apache Atlas project. >> Interviewer: You and IBM have done some major work-- >> We work with IBM and the community on Apache Atlas. You know, metadata tagging is not the most interesting topic for some people, but in the context that I just described, it's kind of important. And so I think one of the areas where we can really add value for the industry is leveraging our lowest common denominator, open source, open community kind of development to really create a standard infrastructure, a standard open infrastructure for metadata tagging, into which all of these use cases can now plug. Whether it's I want to discover data and create metadata about the data based on patterns that I see in the data, or I've inherited data and I want to ensure that the metadata stay with that data through its life cycle, so that I can guarantee the lineage of the data, and be compliant with GDPR-- >> And in fact, tomorrow we will have Mandy Chessell from IBM, a key Hortonworks partner, discussing the open metadata framework you're describing and what you're doing. >> And that was part of this morning's keynote close also. It all really flowed nicely together. Anyway, it is really a perfect storm. So what we've done is we've said, let's leverage this lowest common denominator, standard metadata tagging, Apache Atlas, and uplevel it, and not have it be part of a cluster, but actually have it be a cloud service that can be in force across multiple data stores, whether they're in the cloud or whether they're on prem. >> Interviewer: That's the Data Steward Studio? >> Well, Data Plane and Data Steward Studio really enable those things to come together. >> So the Data Steward Studio is the second service >> Like an app. >> under the Hortonworks DataPlane service. >> Yeah, so the whole idea is to be able to tie those things together, and when you think about it in today's hybrid world, and this is where I really started, where your data strategy is your cloud strategy, they can't be separate, because if they're separate, just think about what would happen. So I've copied a bunch of data out to the cloud. All memory of any lineage is gone. Or I've got to go set up manually another set of lineage that may not be the same as the lineage it came with. And so being able to provide that common service across footprint, whether it's multiple data centers, whether it's multiple clouds, or both, is a really huge value, because now you can sit back and through that single pane, see all of your data assets and understand how they interact. That obviously has the ability then to provide value like with Data Steward Studio, to discover assets, maybe to discover assets and discover duplicate assets, where, hey, I can save some money if I get rid of this cloud instance, 'cause it's over here already. Or to be compliant and say yeah, I've got these assets here, here, and here, I am now compelled to do whatever: delete, protect, encrypt. I can now go do that and keep a record through the metadata that I did it. >> Yes, in fact that is very much at the heart of compliance, you got to know what assets there are out there. And so it seems to me that Hortonworks is increasingly... the H-word rarely comes up these days. >> Scott: Not Hortonworks, you're talking about Hadoop. >> Hadoop rarely comes up these days. When the industry talks about you guys, it's known that's your core, that's your base, that's where HDP and so forth, great product, great distro. In fact, in your partnership with IBM, a year or more ago, I think it was IBM standardized on HDP in lieu of their distro, 'cause it's so well-established, so mature. But going forward, you guys in many ways, Hortonworks, you have positioned yourselves now. Wikibon sees you as being the premier solution provider of big data governance solutions specifically focused on multi-cloud, on structured data, and so forth. So the announcement today of the Data Steward Studio very much builds on that capability you already have there. So going forward, can you give us a sense to your roadmap in terms of building out DataPlane's service? 'Cause this is the second of these services under the DataPlane umbrella. Give us a sense for how you'll continue to deepen your governance portfolio in DataPlane. >> Really the way to think about it, there are a couple of things that you touched on that I think are really critical, certainly for me, and for us at Hortonworks to continue to repeat, just to make sure the message got there. Number one, Hadoop is definitely at the core of what we've done, and was kind of the secret sauce. Some very different stuff in the technology, also the fact that it's open source and community, all those kinds of things. But that really created a foundation that allowed us to build the whole beginning of big data data management. And we added and expanded to the traditional Hadoop stack by adding Data in Motion. And so what we've done is-- >> Interviewer: NiFi, I believe, you made a major investment. >> Yeah, so we made a large investment in Apache NiFi, as well as Storm and Kafka as kind of a group of technologies. And the whole idea behind doing that was to expand our footprint so that we would enable our customers to manage their data through its entire lifecycle, from being created at the edge, all the way through streaming technologies, to landing, to analytics, and then even analytics being pushed back out to the edge. So it's really about having that common management infrastructure for the lifecycle of all the data, including Hadoop and many other things. And then in that, obviously as we discuss whether it be regulation, whether it be, frankly, future functionality, there's an opportunity to uplevel those services from an overall security and governance perspective. And just like Hadoop kind of upended traditional thinking... and what I mean by that was not the economics of it, specifically, but just the fact that you could land data without describing it. That seemed so unimportant at one time, and now it's like the key thing that drives the difference. Think about sensors that are sending in data that reconfigure firmware, and those streams change. Being able to acquire data and then assess the data is a big deal. So the same thing applies, then, to how we apply governance. I said this morning, traditional governance was hey, I started this employee, I have access to this file, this file, this file, and nothing else. I don't know what else is out there. I only have access to what my job title describes. And that's traditional data governance. In the new world, that doesn't work. Data scientists need access to all of the data. Now, that doesn't mean we need to give away PII. We can encrypt it, we can tokenize it, but we keep referential integrity. We keep the integrity of the original structures, and those who have a need to actually see the PII can get the token and see the PII. But it's governance thought inversely as it's been thought about for 30 years. >> It's so great you've worked governance into an increasingly streaming, real-time in motion data environment. Scott, this has been great. It's been great to have you on The Cube. You're an alum of The Cube. I think we've had you at least two or three times over the last few years. >> It feels like 35. Nah, it's pretty fun.. >> Yeah, you've been great. So we are here at Dataworks Summit in Berlin. (upbeat music)