>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon web services, Intel, and their eco system partners. >> And good afternoon, welcome back here to Las Vegas, with the Sands, live here, AWS, re:Invent 2018. The seventh time theCUBE has been fortunate enough to cover this grand event. John Walls, Justin Warren, and Jeff Shiner who's director of IOT and security at Micron, Jeff, thanks for being with us here on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, first off let's just talk about IOT and security, if you will. >> Okay. >> Um, big picture, you know a lot of sensor technology, IOT, multiple, multiple challenges, multiple problems, and security obviously first and foremost. So how do you approach your job philosophically, when the IOT world continues to evolve and really exponentially explode. >> So, absolutely, we've seen, we're working this point with software partners, we're working with OEM customers, some of their integrators, and we just have to be able to talk to anybody about the biggest problems in the industry, around security which has become one of the most dominating factors holding back any growth in IOT. At least that's what it seems like and I think everybody thought last year it was going to grow, then this year it was going to grow, and now we're seeing that there's new hurdles as they go and they maybe implement key orchestrator in the cloud to help with T management. They run into another bottleneck. So there's just really a lack of full end to end solutions. That's what we do, we work with all of our partners to create full ended solutions and take the burden off of our customer. >> So how do you catch up to it? Because if you've already got this plane, this landscape of IOT devices and sensors and as you start to fit them with security solutions, all of sudden this whole new world takes place, right? And so how do you catch up, to the point you do get comfort to the IOT world to let them know whatever new capability you have coming down to the pike, we can take care of for you. >> Yeah, so it's hard because probably the two biggest problems that we see right now is ability to manage keys necessary to manage devices and so that's an awareness thing that we need to really focus on to make sure there's awareness of a unified approach coming down the pipe with Micron, but the other side of it is the maturity of our customers in general. There is just not enough cyber security specialists in the industry to help every company get to where they need to be. So right now, where they are in the company, is sometimes hard to find and companies in a lot of cases don't even know who to go to because they're either new or not pervasive enough in their own company to help the service departments, that need to actually monetize this stuff, so part of it I think has just been waiting for customers to get to that point, to where they understand enough, and that's held back a lot as well. So how we catch up I think is to really unfortunately evangelize. You got to really get out there and evangelize new approaches, and help the customers get over that maturity curve. So I think that's probably one of the things that we're very focused on right now. >> Yeah, and you've got an announcement I believe about a new way of helping your customers actually put security in at the very base levels of their products, so tell us a bit more about that. >> So Micron is one of the largest semiconductor companies in the world and we have a very pervasive attach rate of standard memory. That is all over systems, so we're taking secure element mechanisms that you might be familiar with in other parts of the system, and we're co-locating that onto standard flash memory that would boot systems or store critical data and just protecting the platforms at the flash location, which simplifies a lot of things and then secondly to that, we're taking the cost burden off. We're still selling flash as standard flash. So we have this key management system in the cloud that will facilitate keys getting where they need to be. >> Okay. >> So this is kind of trying to address the most critical aspects. Don't burden your customers and simplify some of the big hurdles that they have. >> Yeah, I think that has been one of the challenges to putting security into some of these devices is partly the cost and also the complexity, doing this sort of thing at skill is quite hard, and actually baking it into the hardware itself so that it's available is quite difficult. It's a very fragmented industry at the moment, I think we've got different solutions from different vendors, and everyone seems to be taking a slightly different approach to things, so maybe you could tell us a bit more about how Micron is helping customers to, I don't know, to be able to cut through all of that noise and to figure out which way should I use to do this. What is it about the Micron solution that you think is going to really help customers to pick a good solution to bake things in with. Well first, it comes back down to the fact that flash is so pervasive. It's your bios in servers in laptops, it's in medical devices and factory automation devices, it's all over your car. So if you have a footprint that can be unified first and foremost, you're making it easier on everybody. But second to that is, the silicon route of trust that you need to truly have security by design is only good if you know how to turn it on. So that means partners coming together building truly silicon to cloud solutions that have the ability for a device to bring its own trust now and these zero trust network approaches that are really being proven unnecessary. So a device that can wake up, check, verify everything is good, and then gain its credentials or provide credentials that say I'm good, so it gets privileges. That takes software at many different levels. It doesn't have to have a lot of software partners to provide high level of integrity. So you'll see Micron coming out with lots of announcements with partners including cloud partners like we're here today. But also plumbing partners that really are the TLS sessions and then software over there update partners and other ways to manage IOT devices. When these become end to end plug and play with a pervasive security element, then you can have a simplified security story. >> It is interesting having a hardware vendor, traditionally a hardware vendor, at a cloud show which is all about software and this ephemeral idea is like actually turns out hardware matters. >> Yeah it's uh, I think that people have been talking about silicon or security by design for quite some time. It just takes time for a silicon company to actually build that in. Because you actually have to change silicon or at least the processes around it to truly make it secure. So we just think that the common footprint, the standard approach with flash, was a good place to invest, and so that's what we've done. >> We've been trying to talk about security for awhile. Sorry John. >> Go ahead. >> It's something which has come up year after year, I know we were talking about it last year when we were here with theCUBE. Where do you think we are in the security journey, for IOT? Like are we at the beginning, are we at the end of the beginning? Are we somewhere in the middle? Where do you think we have to go with that? >> It's so much the beginning, because I think everybody is realizing and there's a lot of epiphanies every year maybe they come about, I would characterize this year as the epiphany being that, hey maybe there's more than one way you can make money on security. But really up until this point, people have been just looking at, I just want to register a device, or register a subscription. Well that has to have an identity that you are registering. That's just one point in time. Okay, who's been focusing on secure supply chain before that? Who's been focusing on over there updates after that? So the identity that maybe in the past was driven by a sim or something that's just an identity. Now it gets to get bolstered with more valuable identities that have measurement bounds or basis in them for auto routing in the cloud or new types of isolation and I think where it really comes fully around is software definable apps in microservices that are now enabled to enable some of the newer really cloud to edge movement of data and services. So it opens up a lot of new realms, I mean edge gets to get more capable, you start to move containers down to the edge more efficiently because they have to be secure. So there's a lot of new ways that these things will get monetized. Because when you have a device now that by silicon can prove trust, it starts to be the thing that can authenticate at various points in time. I recently was trying to put it into a mode to where I have recently had an issue, on I won't say the particular game console, but at my house, my son likes to play games, and I received a bill. He didn't do it, somebody got into his game, I won't talk which game it was, and was buying credits, I'm trying to be agnostic to the game here, but you know, what if that was signed by hardware that's known and registered to my house? Could that be done, no it couldn't. Not if done right. There's so many new opportunities and things that can be signed by silicon verification that will open up new opportunities. >> So let's close up by talking about those opportunities down the road, really from a security perspective. What you see is being the call to arms, if you will, or what the biggest concern is and what's the best way to address that, do you think? >> What we're doing is we're trying to get partners to step up and work with us. Unify the approaches, so look at things in a standard way, make sure that if you go forward, you don't pick proprietary approaches that are going to benefit only one vendor. If you do it that way, you're not going to have success. Too many partners have realized that you have to be open, you have to work with other partners. You're seeing business models change because of that. We do the same, we work with even competitors, of what would be traditionally a competitor of our memory. Because we have to have sources, too. So the more things are standard, the better we'll all be. It will accelerate time to market and it'll also save our customers a ton of money. Then you get to start talking about how users can do new things. >> Then it's a win win. >> It becomes a very much a win win story. >> Jeff, thanks for being with us, here on theCUBE, appreciate the time, and good luck with the rest of your show. >> Alright, I appreciate it, thanks. >> Jeff Shiner, from Micron, joining us here on theCUBE, back with more from Las Vegas with AWS re:Invent, we'll see you in a bit.