>> Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering IBM thing twenty nineteen brought to you by IBM. >> Okay. Welcome back, everyone. We're live here in San Francisco for the cubes. Exclusive coverage of IBM. Think twenty nineteen for a student in our next two guests are great. Glad Co senior vice president, general manager of the mainframe division Broadcom Only with CIA and acquired Clayton Donley, head of security and immigration. Broadcom, both formerly of CIA. Big acquisition. Big value guys. Welcome to the Cube. Good to see you. >> Thanks a lot for having us. >> So we just talked before we came on camera here, IBM. Think a lot of cars here and software a icloud systems and software working together. Kind of thesis of the Broadcom. See a acquisition that that murder, that move was a big one. A lot of analysts liked it. Your thoughts. Now that's playing out here. Yeah, I think it was >> really interesting. If you look at what Broadcom has gone after in the marketplace, is they're They're not looking for the flash in the pan or trying to chase the next new thing. They're looking for core businesses or components. Software products that they believe are, you know, have real staying power and will be around for a decade or Mohr into the future, and then they want to invest in those and nurture they really want to be. Even if it's in a new space, they want to invest in something where they'll be number one or two in the marketplace. >> It's interesting. You're looking at the mark with cloud, you see scale. You see data, all this stuff we talked about for years and years, but it really comes back down. A systems and software working together clouds one big, complex distributed system. So all from distractions could maybe tract away. Those complexities isn't doing its end of the day. It's software plus large scale systems. This kind of was playing out. This is in the wheelhouse of what you guys do it. Can you guys had some color that trend and what needs to happen to make it more and more viable? Mohr performance easier to use? >> Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, what we see is that customers are having a lot of problems with individual pieces of software. They're having problems when they put all this together. All right, So if you look at even to your question about Brock, come a moment ago. They sort of came in in price software through through the data center because they're providing everything. May I chips, too? Fibre channel networks and other kinds of things that are running peoples, you know, networks of the very largest scale and what their realizes when you get into the enterprise software level customers have such challenges because, you know, they don't get to cherry pick just cool things or the easy things to go integrate. They've got everything from mainframe client server to interior to whatever they picked up over the years. That stuff has to work together seamlessly to get kind of value. That makes sense. And that's why I think when you start looking at, you kind of are focus. It's on helping customers bring that together, get that value. >> It's all about the hybrid environment, because what we're getting at here is I got to make the legacy work with the new. But the beautiful thing about cloud native of some of these new micro services and containers is you don't have to kill the old Bring in the new. There's a great abstraction around software now that's making them work together. But yet the new stuff and work really great. This is the kind of the new architecture. Your thoughts on this? >> Yeah. I mean, obviously you're here a lot about that here it think right there, talking all about hybrid I T or multi cloud. I think there's a stat out there that, you know, seventy five percent of the large enterprises in the world say they'll be have multi cloud or hybrid environments by twenty twenty. I think they all have it today, Right? You think mobile mainframe, right? There's not workloads that work in isolation. You pick up your phone and you go to check your balance. It's gonna kick off a transaction that's going to go toe edge device or an edge server that's going to go through a network and maybe hit another server. And eventually it's going to go back to a mainframe to check the balance or to transfer funds or something like that. So they're having to deal with it already today. And and there's two kind of sides of the coin. You want that interaction for the developers to be common across those platforms, yet you want them to be ableto leverage on the power the strength, the security of the underlying platform without having to know all the gory details, which is, you know why. It makes a lot of sense for us mainframe and distributed. If you look across what is the CIA Technologies portfolio that Broadcom acquired, A lot of the capabilities that we have are the same capabilities that work across those environments so that the enterprise customers can interact with it one way. >> Clayton it. When I hear this environment, there's certain things that I need to worry about everywhere. It's, you know, my data. How do I protect my data? And, of course, security is one of those areas where there are lots of different environments, and unfortunately, there's lots of different considerations. Depending on which clouds I have which environment, you know, mainframe X eighty six power. You all have different considerations. The mantra I've heard that that seems to resonate is security is everyone's responsibility, you know, up and down the stack from the chip level all the way through the application. So explain where you know CIA. Now Broadcom fits in tow this picture and lives in this, you know, even more. Header. Genus world and by the way, totally agree. Multi cloud is what customers have today. Yeah, >> I mean, if you if you look at it, I mean, customers. They're building out, you say new mobile applications and and, you know, building them, his services in the cloud and so forth. But what we're finding is that the transactions and other kinds of things, they're still happening in some of these other environments. Maybe those environments still live in a data center. Maybe they've been moved to a private cloud. Maybe they're in a public cloud. Writing on my ass or some other kind of bank is a service. What we're finding is that each of you that transaction has to be protected. The guy that gives you the ability to call that transaction from a mobile app needs to be protected. All of these things need to be protected. But then you need to be able to orchestrate that. Make sure that you're laying down those based protecting those bits. Same way every time testing them the same way every time. And I think that if you look at what we're looking at and our values really in digital infrastructure management, right, but you're you're bringing all these pieces in cloud, multi cloud mainframe, All of these environments you have, You have a way to operate it, Manage it as well as for security. >> Yeah. So, Greg, you know, when I look back my career, there's something that's been repeating a lot. It's I go back to find it here, go back to the nineties. It was like, Okay, what was some of the reasons why the excess piece failed? It was like, Well, it was networking security, you know, in cloud happened. It was, well, security and management, howto like, you know, figure out some of these management of a hetero genius environment has typically been a downfall in it. It's something that we struggled at as an industry. So why will now be different? How how is the industry helping to solve that issue? And, you know, simple is something that we keep trying to hear. But, you know, actually, achieving it is pretty >> challenge. I think it's fundamentally realizing that the core large enterprises in the world today are using mainframes, right, and some of them have tried to migrate. Something's off, and it's not about complexity of migrating it off. It's about whether or not you can land somewhere that has that same security throughput, resiliency, all that kind of stuff. But if you recognize that you're gonna have these systems interacting and you recognize that we have to make it easier for people whether they're coming out of university or they're coming from a background of distributed or open source, you want to make it easier to interact. It's what's informing everything we do in our strategy and mainframe. So we talk about open, frictionless and optimized. So it's all about the idea of that mainframe system and those processes that were running, whether it's Dev ops, whether it's, you know, databases and tools, whatever we're doing, the security, the analytics that we're doing that has to be open and be able to interact with other people's tools as well as other people's platforms. Frictionless is all about the idea of you got to make it easy to do that interaction somebody that comes at this from a non mainframe context that maybe knows I calm the cartoon characters of open source. You know, get your gold for Jenkins or whatever, right that they can use that to interact with the mainframe and leverage it, and then you want to be optimized. You want to make it for the real deep technical professional to get the most out of it and focus where the expertise is, or for the novice cannot really have to need training wheels, but to be able to ride that bike right away and perform the things. So all these things you can see how their kind of informed and setting that tone of thinking about, ah, hybrid environment and connecting that mainframe in, across, not sitting as an island unto itself, >> I mean, you bring up a good point. A couple points, One is distributed. Computing has been around for a while. Mainframes. I mean, I'm old enough to remember that I was private client server way. We see the point of the main finger. >> You're gonna be >> dead soon. Most of all, kind of went away that, but it never died, right? We all know, but there's a renaissance. Rumors of my death are greatly, exactly. A lot of them didn't go down, but they were, but they were really died. But but here's the thing. There's a renaissance and mainframe because of cloud computing and cloud operations. If everything's cloud operationalized, then essentially you have a big one. Big distribute computer call resource and edges that are subsystem. So the notion of buying a mainframe isn't a platform decision. It's a right tool. The right job kind of decision, so people are not looking at mainframes was a bad decision. If it fits right, that's not like everyone should buy made friends. But if you need it, the horse power, the question is begs. The question is, why is there a renaissance and mainframes? What's the reason why people are buying them? Is it because it fits into a certain position? Is that certain scale? Is it because they could plug right into the cloud and be a big resource? >> I think there's I think there's also, ah, realization, you know, think about if you're the the newer CEO, our CTO, and you start looking at your state and you realize that you know this mainframe thing thatyou're spending twenty percent of your budget on is actually doing seventy percent of your process that you kind of look at it and you go. We'll work really cost effective. So then you start looking at? Well, where is it most cost effective. And does it make sense to use, Use it there. And then when you could tie it into everything else, when you can can get the same types of security tools and lock it down and locked the interaction down you say, Hey, this might, But this might make sense for me to do it. And I think it just ends up being dollars and cents and then the resiliency, right? I mean, when people aren't having that downtime >> plate, you're going to run your business. You want up time. If you're any commerce, you want high stamp your systems. So it really is the right tool for the world, like a thing for the right job. Is this happening? Give us the update on our people, buying more reason because it's just it's better. >> I think part of it also is, you know, why fix what isn't broken, right? The main friends running there, It's up. It's provided transactions. I think he used to have used to have this impediment to getting access, to need to find some old global guy, you need to find all this other stuff because you had your business, >> Cobol programmers. But now it runs analytics. >> It's like a It's like a foreign language to some people, right? You say Kobol was like, after one Chinese. So what? We've done those We've made it. So you don't have to learn. Cobell. You don't have to learn some specialized thing. You can come in with a prize. You come in with the technology, they teach kids and, you know, elementary school t use Java script and other kinds of things to come in access. So same things that are now in the mean >> it's basically a big iron and the old expression, big horsepower, >> horsepower, high throughput, high resiliency. >> Greg, I heard you talk about things like Dev ops that you fit in this environment. Absolutely. We've attracted. I remember, you know, when you nosy lennix on mainframe rolled out fifteen years ago. You want to do the cool new dock? Er, you know things? Absolutely. But if I look at the death ofthe people, people that are going to pay for this a lot of times they say, Well, I'm used to more that cloud model. How do I get? You know, they moved to an off ex model. We're still early in that trend, but, you know, Dizzy Syria's mainframe. Will it fit into the new modern paradigm? From a CFO standpoint, >> I definitely think so. If you if you look at a lot of the stuff that's going on in the marketplace and even concepts that we're testing with clients today around, you know you can refer to it as consumption based pricing or value based pricing, you know, looking at how much you're actually using and then charging for that with a known, you know, Hey, if I grow my capacity this much, how much am I going to pay or if I go down? I'm not going to be able to redeploy those dollars elsewhere. All those constructs are stuff that we're working with customers today on. So it is very much the idea of a cloud like environment that can either be delivered on creme through you buying your own hardware or, you know there's IBM that as easy cloud, there's folks like in so no its center that have clouds that have mainframe up in them today. >> And the developer environment clearly is going towards infrastructures code, which is the abstraction away? Just programmable infrastructure. They don't care where it was fast, right? Doesn't matter. Does it really matter >> how I look? Way contributed, too. Zoe Bright side, right? That was the command line interface, and everybody was like, Oh, my God, You know, they thought maybe we had some executives that were sitting back that had this brilliant idea. We were actually using out agile methodologies in our development, and we gave in each programming increment. We gave the engineers time to do what they wanted to do. You know, one sprint per cycle. And some of our young developers said, You know what I wish I could use, Get Jenkins and gulp and tie them into Endeavor or these other Dev ops tools or it stops tools. They developed it as an internal use tool for a command line, and we've stumbled over on accent. We said, Oh my God, this is thing We think something we think customers would want. And then, as we got talking with Rocket with IBM, Rocket had a Web interface, IBM at the mediation layer and we said, Holy cow, You know, this is something. If we got together, we contributed. We could really start a renaissance around mainframe, and a lot of people are going What? Why you've got proprietary tools and software. Why would you open up? Because the reality is we want our customers to find it easier to work with the mainframe and look out compete on the differentiation of my underlying lying product, whether it be price or function. But I want my customers to be able to tie in my software with IBM with rockets with rooms out whomever and picked because of where the value is, not because they feel locked in >> its You're going about one >> of the gripes about mainframe, right? People thought they were locked in >> lock and proprietary weird interfaces freshen, You take the friction away >> and that's not that's your father's >> mainframe. That's not today's May in front of that was exactly the old. The only kind of perception, right? We bring Lennox and all these tools and infrastructures. Code is just another resource on the network. Guys. Thanks for the insight. Appreciate Left home My mainframe. My God made my day here. So I'm free clad world final. Give a plug quickly for Broadcom. What, you guys working on. What's the big news here for you guys? Give a quick. >> Hey, I'll tell you for me, Broadcom acquiring the mainframe business is all about investment. And, I mean, we're a software business, So more than ninety percent of my expenses people, if I'm not hiring, I'm full of it. I'm not investing. I'm hiring were posted like crazy. We're hiring, We're expanding to the team, and the idea is all about there's customers have used core products for many years, and they want to count on him for many years to come. Were making those investments, and we're going to continue to invest in the new capabilities dealt, make more efficient, effective on the platform. >> Your thoughts, >> you know, I >> mean, I think that you know that, you know, it's interesting. You look a broad, calm, and a lot of people don't know. You know what's the focus right there? They're not traditionally the software space, and so >> on. They are the >> first thing you well, they are now. And one of the things that we're doing this if you look at our investment rate in R and D in general, it's up there. I mean, world class. If you look at the largest your most successful cloud players forget about, you know, your large cap. Take protect companies to sell in terms of percentage of our percentage of revenue. They spend it R and B. We're far above that. We're at a very high level. We're going to continue to invest in a lot of innovation, you know? Aye, aye. Machine Learning Dev. Ops, of course. You know, curious security is >> a cultural shift. We could see vinyl records. We're gonna come back now. You got mainframe back. How much back can I get a mainframe for? If I want to be the new cool kid on the block, you >> got to go to IBM >> for the hardware. But I could talk to you about yourself or to help you with it. You gotta mean faith for the Cube. Just have one in our house. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. Thanks. Pleasure. You covered your talking mean freeze and IBM Think software. Lynn Nix, The new World Cloud Data. I I'm John's First Amendment back with more coverage after this short break