>>from Miami >>Beach, Florida It's the Q covering a Cronus Global Cyber >>Summit 2019. Brought to you by a Cronus. >>Welcome to the Qi. We are in Miami, Florida, for the Cronus Global Cyber Summit. 2019 John for your host of the Cube. We're here for two days of coverage around cybersecurity and the impact to the enterprise in society in a great guest here to kick off the event. Linda Babcock, professor of economics at Carnegie Mellon University, author of the book, Ask for It, and she has a new book she's working on, and we'll get into that. Thanks for joining me. Thanks for coming on. >>Really happy to be here. >>Thanks. So Carnegie Mellon. Great. Great. Uh, University. They stole a bunch of people when I was in school, in the computer science department. Very well known for that as well. Economics, math, machine learning. I was good stuff there. What's going on in Carnegie Mellon? What's new in your world? >>Well, it's just actually just a great place to be because of the focus on interdisciplinary work. You know, problems in the world don't come as disciplines. They come with multiple perspectives needed and So it's just a place where people can flourish, attack ideas from all kinds of angles. And so it's a really great >>one of the things I hear a lot about, and we cover a lot about the the skills gap. Certainly this is Maur job openings than there are jobs and interesting. A lot of the jobs that are new haven't been skilled, important in the classic university setting. So a lot of these jobs, like cybersecurity, cloud computing, Blockchain, crypto economic token economics, all kind of have a maths economic steam to him. So you know your computer science, you got economics and policy. I seem to be the key areas around from these new skills and challenges. Way faces a society which your take on all this >>Well, actually, there's a lot going on in this area at Carnegie Mellon. Actually, the economics group at Carnegie Mellon ISS is been proposing a new major that really focuses on this interface between economics, machine learning and technology. And I think it's going to train our students just for the next generation of problems that the world of tech is gonna have. So it's very exciting. >>So let's talk about your book. Ask for it. Okay. Um, it's not a new book that's been around for a while, but you give a talk here. What's what's the talking talking track here at the event? >>Yeah, so I have a couple of themes of research, and it focuses on women's Berries to advancement in organizations. And so most of the work that I did with this book and my first book, Women Don't Ask, was looking about how men and women approached negotiation differently. And kind of the bottom line is that women are what less likely to negotiate than men over all kinds of things, like pay like opportunities for advancement like the next promotion. And it really harms them in the workplace because men are always out there asking for it and organizations reward that. And so the book is was really about shedding light on this disparity and what organizations could do about it and what women can do about it themselves, how they can learn to negotiate more effectively. >>What did you learn when you were writing the book around? Some of the use cases of best practices that women were doing in the field was it. Maura aggressive style has a more collaborative. You're seeing a lot more solidarity amongst women themselves, and men are getting involved. A lot of companies are kind of talking the game summer walking, the talk. What the big findings that you've learned >>well, I'd say that the approach is that women use are a lot different than the approaches that menus. And it's because our world lets men do a lot of different things. It lets them engage in a cooperative way, lets them be very competitive. But our world has a very narrow view about what's acceptable behavior for women. I often call it a tight rope because women are kind of balancing that they need to go out and assert themselves. But they have to do it in a way that our side, a society finds acceptable, and that that tight rope constrains women and doesn't allow them to be their authentic Selves on DSO. It makes it difficult for women to navigate that. What's your >>take on the the balancing of being aggressive and the pressure companies have to, you know, keep the women population certainly pipeline in tech. We see it all the time and the whole me to thing and the pressure goes on because norms were forming, right? So is there any new data that you can share around how, with norms and for forming and what men can do? Particularly, I get this question a lot, and I always ask myself, What am I doing? Can I do something different? Because I want to be inclusive and I want to do the right thing. But sometimes I don't know what to do. >>Yeah, of course. And it's really important that men get involved in this conversation as allies and, like you said, sometimes men but don't know what to do because they feel like maybe they don't have standing to be in the conversation when it's about women and weigh all need men, his allies. If women are gonna try to reach equality, ATT's some point. But the new data really suggests negotiation may be playing a role. The work that show Sandberg lean in, But the newest work that we have shows that actually the day to day things that happen at work that's holding women back. So let me tell you about that. So what we find is if you think about your calendar and what you do all day there a task that you can classify as being promotable, that is, they're really your core job. Responsibility there noticed, rewarded. But there's glass of other things that happen in your organization that are often below the surface that are important to dio valued but actually not rewarded. And what our research finds is that men spend much more time than women at the tasks that are these promotable task that rewarded women spend much more time than men on these tasks that we call non promotable that are not rewarded. And it's really holding women back. And how men can help is that the reason that women are doing these tasks is because everyone is asking them to do these tasks. And so what men can do is start asking men to do some of these things that are important but yet not rewarded because the portfolio's now are really out of balance and women are really shouldering the burden of these tasks disproportionately. >>So get on the wave of the promotional off the promotional oriented things that Maura and the man can come and pick up the slack on some of the things that were delegated to the women because they could order the kitchen food or whatever >>or help others with their work. Someone has to hire the summer intern. Someone has to organize events. Someone has to resolve underlying conflicts. Those are all really important things. Women get tasked with them, and that really doesn't allow them to focus on their core job responsibilities. And so men can step up to the blade, stop, do it, start doing their fair share of that work, and really then allow women to reach their full >>potential. I've been thinking a lot about this lately around how collaboration software, how collaborative teams. You started to see the big successful coming like Amazon to pizza team concept. Smaller teams, Team Orient. If you're doing it, you're in a teen. These things go. You've given you get so I think it's probably a better environment. Is that happening or no? It's >>unclear how teams kind of shake out for women in this setting, because there's actually some research that shows when a team produces an output and the supervisor trying to figure out, like who really made the output? Who was the valued player on the team. They often overvalue the contributions of men and undervalued the contributions of women. So actually, team projects can be problematic if women don't get their fair share of >>bias. Is everywhere >>biases everywhere. And you know it's not that people are trying discriminate against women. It's just that it's a subconscious, implicit bias and so affects our judgments in ways that we don't even realize. >>It's actually probably amplifies it. You know, the game are gaining a lot of things on digital indigenous communities. We see a lot where people are hiding behind their avatars. Yeah, that's also pretty bad environment. So we've been doing a lot of thinking and reporting around communities and data. I want to get your thoughts is I never really probed at this. But is there any economic incentives? And after you're an economics professor, you seeing things like crypto economics and tokens and all kinds of new things is a potential path towards creating an incentive system that's cutting edge what's progressive thinking around any kind of incentive systems for organizations or individuals. >>Well, when you think about incentives and maybe an economist, I think about those a lot, and I emerged that with my work on various to women's advancement, I think incentives is one area that you can actually play a big role. And that is that Organizational leaders should be incentive fied incentivized to see that they have equal advancement for their male and female employees in their workforce. Because if they don't it means they're losing out on this potential that women have, that they aren't able to fully be productive. And so that's, I think, the place. I think that incentives can really be important, >>a great leader and he said, and I'm quoting him. But I feel the same way says. Our incentive is business. Get a better outcome with them. We include women, give data, goes Yeah, we make software and have people that use our software with women I don't wanna have. So I'm like, Oh, that makes a lot of sense. Biases should be in there. Four Women for women by women for women >>and women spend more money as consumers than men. And so having women on teams allows them to see perspectives that men may not see, and so it can really add two new innovative thinking that hadn't been there before by including women. >>Well, I'm excited that this there's a little bit of movement in tech we're starting to see, certainly in venture capital, starting to see a lot more when you come into the board room work to do. But I think there's a nice sign that there's more jobs that are computer related that aren't just coding. That's male dominant pretty much now and still still is for a while. But there's a lot more skills, all kinds of range now in computer science. It's interesting. How is that affecting some of the new pipeline ing? >>Yeah, well, I think the good news is that there are is increasing levels of women's attainment in stem fields. And so there are more and more female workers entering the labor market today. Way just have to make sure that those workers are valued and feel included when they do doing tech companies. Otherwise they will leave because what happens unfortunately, sometimes in tech is it doesn't feel inclusive for women. And the quick rate for women in tech is over over twice the rate for men, and some of the reasons are is they're not feeling valued in their positions. They're not seeing their advancement. And so with this new wave of female workers, we have to make sure that those workplaces are ready to accept them and include them. >>That's great. Well, ask for it is a great book. I went through it and it's great handbook. I learned a lot. It really is a handbook around. Just standing up and taken what you can. You got some new, but you got a new book you're working on. What's that gonna look like? What if some of the themes in the new book >>Yeah. So the new book is on these promotable tasks, and the way I like to think about it is there's so much attention toe work, life balance, you know? How do you manage both of those with your career, your family? How does that work? But our work actually focuses on work, work, balance, and what remains is paying attention to the things that you do at work. Making sure that those things that you're doing are the things that are most valuable for your employer and are gonna be most valuable for your career. So it's a really different focus on the day to day ways that you spend your time at work and how that can propel women to the next level. >>That's awesome, Linda. Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. What do you think of the event here? Cronies? Global cyber security summit. >>Well, I got to say it's not my typical event, but I'm having a good time learning more about what's happening in the tech industry today. >>Cyber protection, Certainly a cutting edge issue. And certainly on the East Coast in Washington D certainly with national defense and all kinds of things happening, Ransomware is a big topic that kicked around here absolutely getting taken out like, Oh, my God. Yeah. Bitcoin in return for taking your systems out, >>all kinds of new stuff to add to my tool kit. >>Great to have you on. Thanks for your insight. Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it. I'm John for here at the Cube. We're here in Miami Beach for the Cronus Cyber Protection Conference. Thank you for watching