>> Welcome to this IBM Watson Health Client Conversation. Here, we are probing the dynamics of the relationship between IBM and its key clients. We're looking back and we're also exploring the present situation. And we're going to talk about the future state of healthcare as well. My name is Dave Vellante from theCUBE and with me are Ryad Rondo who's the Associate director of Data Management at Veristat and Tim Watson, IBM Watson Health. Welcome gents. Tim, any relation? >> (chuckles) If I had a nickel for every time I was asked that question I'd be a wealthy man. >> Well, relationships and trust. I mean, they're pretty fundamental to any partnership and the pandemic certainly has tested us, and we've had to rely on those personal and professional relationships to get us through COVID. So let me start Ryad by asking you, how did the partnership with IBM support you last year? >> Last year as you know was particular year for our industry. So the relationship with our provider was key of the success of any studies we had last year with the new world we had. So we were working very close with IBM Clinical, and I think collaboration was key for successful (indistinct). >> So Tim, I wonder if you could talk about some of the things that you've done with Ryad and his team, maybe some of the things that you accomplished in 2020 anything that stands out. And then maybe take it from there and query Ryad on some of the more important topics that are top of mind for you. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think in 2020, we all know it was a challenging year but IBM actually put together a really good program to support our clients as as it relates to COVID-19 trials. And Veristat did a great job of taking advantage of that with a number of their clients that offered a free promotion for 18 months of a subscription to support individual sponsors in their efforts and trying to find a vaccine that supports the whole world out there. So I think we put together a program that Veristat and their clients were able to take advantage of as it relates to COVID. But in addition to that the platform supported their efforts to maintain the clinical trials that were ongoing. And that was actually probably even bigger challenge for the Veristat team. >> Yeah, so maybe do a little mock session here. Tim you're used to role-playing so let's do a little role-playing. So we're in 2021 you guys are sitting down, unfortunately you're not face-to-face, but imagine you were and Ryad, talk about the objectives that you have in 2021, as you think about your relationship with Watson Health and Tim I'd love for you to respond in real time as to how you're going to help Ryad. Ryad kick it off, what are you trying to get done in 2021? What's the priority? >> Let me take a step back from 2020 and I go to 2021. I think one of the biggest challenge we have in 2021 with studies we had, is the extreme rapid startup of several projects we had. So we needed to start, design and push studies live in the record time. We were able to design a study in a week, another study in two weeks from the protocol to the goal of the study. And all that was with the collaboration of IBM, of course. And 2020 actually brought a change of the approach the client have to the study. So now they are more willing to use more electronic solutions than before. 2020 forced our client and the industry in general to look at the solutions offered electronically by the ADC provider by IBM Clinical. So right now in 2021, we will be leveraging those solutions, I'm thinking about monitoring module, I'm thinking about ePRO, I'm thinking about eConsent which is coming soon and I'm thinking about visualization as well. So these solutions provided by the system are now more acceptable than before and we will be used in 2021. Visualization is in the top list of these solutions eConsent comes with it as well. >> Alright so Tim, how are you going to help? How's Watson Health going to be a great partner in 2021 and beyond? >> Well, I think IBM is continuing to focus on what do these solutions mean going forward and how can we extend the functionality of our platform out there? So with the release of eConsent that's something that I believe Veristat can take advantage of. And the near term is just a matter of getting the Veristat team educated on our eConsent functionality to be able to offer that out to their clients. And visualization is another area that we've had a number of discussions with Veristat on over the past 12 months and leveraging the tool set that we are able to bring to the table with smart reports and how that can provide additional value and then finding that balance where we can get them off the ground quickly maybe with some pre-packaged reports but also educating their team so that they're able to take that tool set and be able to extend that functionality to their clients. >> So Ryad what's the situation like? I wonder if you could think pre pandemic, post pandemic. A lot of clients that I talked to, they would talk the digital game, but in reality it's not that simple. You know things are done a certain way and then I've often called it the forced march to become digital. And that's kind of what happened to us. And so I'm curious as to your sense as to what the climate was like pre and post? How much if at all, I have to believe that everybody's digital strategies were compressed, but was it months? Was it years? And it was sort of overnight we had to make the changes. So it was like a Petri dish. You really didn't have time to plan, you just did. So by how much was that digital transformation compressed and what were the learnings and how do you see taking that forward? >> We historically would go to clients with solutions and you know human nature resists to change. So when we go offering electronic solutions before the pandemic, we always had to define, to use a lot of argument actually to explain to the client that this is the way to go. This is the time to do use more electronic solutions. With the pandemic, the fear forced the client to use these solutions. And they realized that it's working. They realize that we can do it. We can do it very well. Even for complex study, solutions are available and can be used. We also was forced somehow to shorten our timeline to find best way to push studies live in as short as possible timelines without jeopardizing the quality, finding solutions. Splitter is one of the solutions IBM can offer so this is one of the solution we used. The release of the ECRS done later in the edit. IBM offered the capability to do that without jeopardizing the quality. >> So Tim, maybe you could chime in here. I mean, that's really important point. We had sort of no choice but to rush into digital and electronic last year how do you help clients maintain that quality? Maybe you guys could talk amongst yourselves as to the kinds of things you did to maintain that both, when things were going crazy and they somewhat still are. And then how do you preserve that going forward maybe turn the dial maybe a little bit based on your learnings. >> I think one of the advantages that our platform brings to the table is the flexibility. And that flexibility is what Veristat was able to take advantage of in different situations, in different parts of the platform. So whether that was the ability to design trials very quickly and be very flexible with the rollout of that trial to address specific timelines or just the different areas of the platform like ePRO to be able to extend things out to their clients as well so that patients are entering data into the clinical trial so that they're not having to go visit sites necessarily out there. So there's a lot of things that we have within the platform that our clients are able to take advantage of that really came into full focus in the year of 2020. >> Does that resonate with you Ryad? Do you trust what Tim just said? Does it give you a good feeling based on your experience? How confident are you that IBM can deliver on that objective? >> Yeah, actually the pressure we received from the industry in general, in the last year and still this year is to always shorten with high quality deliverables. So we were able to use the flexibility IBM system offers to achieve that goal. Splitting release performing a complex MSU successfully. So all these features and the flexibility we have with the status and flexibility we have with the user roles all these features and flexibilities was key performing that high quality MSU complex updates and in the record time. >> I wonder if you could each talk about sort of personally and bring it professional if you like, but how have you changed as a result of the pandemic and how has it helped you position for what's coming ahead? Ryad maybe you you could start. >> One of the things I'd like to say about what happened last year is that, it has never been easier for me to explain what I do. Historically, when I asked what do they exactly? I had to spend hours explaining what I do. Now I tell them, do you know what's the phase three phase two we are all waiting for the vaccine? That's what we do. So that's I think the number one success of the year for me. Honestly, it's just proud to work in an industry like that. Proud to work in a company like Veristat who cares about the quality who cares about providing the safety of the patient using the best system in the market working with IBM Clinical in this case. We're working to achieve that goal. I think 2020 gave me that just another level of proud maybe, if I may say. Partnership with client, partnership with IBM offered free for COVID studies for an 18-month program. So all of these just confirm that we are, I am personally in the right place, right company, having the right partnership to help humanity actually get better. >> Thank you for that, that's great. And Tim, you too you're obviously part of that, but I wonder if you could comment. >> Well, I'd like to kind of echo just what Ryad had said that professionally I feel we play a very small part. The Veristat team, the Sponsors team they do all the hard work, trying to find new medications, new vaccines to bring to life. But it means a lot to play a small part in that process to offer a technology that helps them do that quicker. And if we can get those drugs and vaccines to market quicker then that's going to have a very positive impact on the world as a whole. So it's a very exciting time to be in this industry. >> Undoubtedly. Ryad what can IBM do to help you near-term, mid-term and long-term? What are some of the most important things that Tim and his company can help with? >> Yeah, as Tim mentioned, we will have eConsent coming soon. I'm sure IBM will have other electronic solution coming soon so partnership, support and training. So education between our two entities between Veristat and IBM to use this new feature now became key for the success of any study. So I expect partnership support on an education from them. We've been successfully doing that and hoping that we'll continue in this case. >> Tim, any comments on that? >> Well, we have a great relationship with Veristat and we try to have that same kind of relationship with all of our clients. We meet regularly with governance meetings. That's a great time to share new information, to revisit old questions that may still be out there. And so, we're going to continue to offer the additional training options to our clients to allow them to leverage that platform so that they can then cater to their clients, the sponsors that are contracting with them for their clinical trials. >> So Ryad, Tim did say lower the price. That's a good sign. What about that though? What about value for investment? How Ryad would you grade IBM's track record in that regard? If you had to put a grade on it, you know, A, B, C, D, E, F. >> I would put a good grade, actually. I think it's the right balance. You know, a client expect always to pay less, but we are the experts, we are doing the job. And we have to guide them, make the right decision. We tell them why they should pick that or that system. And what are they getting for the price they're paying for. Right now we didn't have much trouble selling IBM and there is something common I think so, is to revise the price to be more specific for study, I think will help the client actually. Will help selling the products. >> So if you had to put a letter grade on it what would you give them? >> A grade? (chuckles) >> A grade, come on A, B? >> An A. >> An A, you'd give them an A? >> Yes. Solid A, 4.0 that's great, Tim you got a-- >> A minus to just leave some space for improvement. (Tim chuckles) >> Okay A minus just because, hold the carrot out there right? That's good, it's okay. Tim, how do you feel about that? You don't mind having a little extra incentive, right? >> No, absolutely not. It's always great to work with the Veristat team and we have I think a great relationship and there are certainly opportunities that we can hopefully work together. And If the price needs to be addressed then we can address it and win the business. >> Tim, anything I missed? Anything that you feel like there's a gap there that you want to cover that I didn't touch on? >> No, I think we're good. >> Great, awesome. Well, great conversation guys. I really appreciate it and thanks for the good work that you guys are doing on behalf of everybody who's living through this. It's a critical time and it's amazing how your industry has responded so thank you for that. And thank you for spending some time with us. You're watching Client Conversations with IBM Watson Health.

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with coverage of coop con and cloud native con North America, 2020 virtual brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back, everybody Jeffrey here with the cube coming to you from our Palo Alto studios today with our ongoing coverage of coupon cloud native con North America, 2020. It's not really North America, it's virtual like everything else, but you know that the European show earlier in the summer, and this is the, this is the late fall show. So we're excited to welcome in our very next two guests. Uh, first joining us from Madrid. Spain is Miguel Perez, Kaleena. He is a principal product manager from red hat, Miguel. Great to see you. >>Good to see you happy to be in the cube. >>Yes. Great. Well welcome. And joining us from North Carolina is rich Sharples. He is a senior director, product management of red hat. Rich. Great to see you. >>Yeah, likewise, thanks for inviting me again. >>So we're talking about Java today and before we kind of jump into it, you know, in preparing for this rich, I saw an interview that you did, I think earlier about halfway through the year, uh, celebrating the 25th anniversary of Java and talking about the 25th anniversary Java. And before we kind of get into the future, I think it's worthwhile to take a look back at, you know, kind of where Java came from and how it's lasted for 25 years of such an important enterprise, you know, kind of application framework, because we always hear jokes about people looking for COBOL programmers or, you know, all these old language programmers, because they have some old system that's that needs a little assist. What's special about Java. Why are we 25 years into it? And you guys are still excited about Java yesterday, today and in the future. >>Yeah. And I should add that, um, in terms of languages, uh, twenty-five is actually still pretty young. Java's, uh, kind of middle aged, I guess. Um, you know, things like CC plus bus rrr you're 45, 50 years old Python, I think is about the same as Java in terms of years. So, you know, the languages do tend to move at a, um, at a, they do tend to stick around, uh, uh, a bit, well what's made Java really, really important for enterprises building business critical applications is it started off with a very large ecosystem of big vendors supporting it. Um, it was open in a sense from the very start and it's remained open as in open source and an open community as well. So that's really, really helped, um, you know, keep the language innovating and moving along and attracting new developers. And, um, it's, it's still a fairly modern language in terms of some of the new features it's advancing with the industry taking on new kinds of workloads and new kinds of per program paradigms as well. So, you know, it's, it's evolved very well and has a huge base out somewhere between 11 and 13 million developers still use it as a primary development language in professional settings. Yeah. >>What struck me about what you said though in that interview was kind of the evolution and how Java has been able to continue to adapt based on kind of what the new frameworks are. So whether it was early days in a machine, like you talked about being in a set top box, or, you know, kind of really lightweight kind of almost IOT applications then to be calming, you know, this really a great application to deliver enterprise applications via a web browser and that, you know, and it continues to morph and change and adapt over time. I thought that was pretty interesting given the vast change in the way applications are delivered today versus what they were 25 years ago. >>Yeah, absolutely. It's, you know, the very early days were around embedded devices, uh, intelligent toasters and, you know, whatever. Um, and, and then where it really, really took off was, but the building supporting big backend systems, big transactional workloads, whether you're a bank or an airline you're running both the scale, but also running really, really complex transactional systems that were business critical. And that's that's for the last, you know, 15 years has been, um, where it's, it's really shown building backend, um, systems. Now, as we kind of move forward, you know, the idea of, uh, um, like server side, uh, server side application versus a front end is kind of changed. You know, now we're talking microservices, we're talking about running in containers. So really the focus of where we run Java and the kinds of applications we're building with Java as this has radically changed. And as such the language has to change as well, which is, you know, one, I'm pretty excited to talk about caucus today. >>So let's, let's jump into it and talk about corcus cause the other big trend, you know, along with, with, with obviously, uh, uh, browsers being great enterprise applications, delivery vehicles is this thing called containers, right? And, and specifically more recently Kubernetes is the one that's grabbing all the attention and grabbing all the, all the momentum. Um, so I wonder Miguel, if you could talk about, you know, kind of as, as the popularity of containerized applications and containerized to everything right, containerized storage, or you even talked about containerizing networking, troll, how that's impacted, uh, what you guys are doing and the impact of Java, uh, and making it work with kind of a containerized Kubernetes world. >>Well, what we found is that the paradigm of development has teeth. So we have this top up, uh, uh, paradigm that the people are following to be able to do the best with containers, to the best with Kubernetes on the, this has worked quite fine in Greenfield on for, for many cases has been a way to develop applications faster, to be able to obtain variably salts. And the thing is that for many, uh, users, for many companies that we work with, uh, they also want to bring some of their stuff that the applications that are currently are running into this world. And, uh, I mean, we, we walk especially a lot in helping these customers be able to adopt those obligations, but we try to do it, uh, as we say, the N pixie dust, you know, we really dig into the code, we'll review the code with modernize. The application will help their customer with that application. We provide the tools are open for anyone to be able to review it and to be able to take it. So we are moving away from Greenfield into brownfield and not a way we are evolving together to say we more precise, you know, all these Greenfield applications keep coming, but also the current applications want to be more organized. >>Right. Right. So it's pretty interesting. Cause that's always the big conversation. There's, it's, it's all fine. And good if you're just building something new, uh, to use the latest tools. But as you mentioned, there's a whole lot of conversation about application modernization and this is really an opportunity to apply some of these techniques to do that. So quirky. So I wonder if you just give, let's just jump into it. What is it at the highest level? Uh, what's it all about? What should people know? >>Yeah. So, so Corker says I'm reading an attempt by red hat to ensure Java is a first-class citizen in containerized environments, but building reactive applications, uh, cloud native applications, uh, functions, Java is an incredible piece of engineering. It does some incredible things. It sudden can self optimize. As it's running in line code, it can do some really amazing things the longer it runs, but in a containerized environment, you're likely not going to be running huge amounts of code. You'd likely be running microservices and your, your services are likely to have a kind of limited life cycle as we you're able to deploy more frequently or in a function environment where, you know, you've been bought once and then you're done, um, you know, during all those long, um, kind of, um, those optimizations over time, don't really, um, make a lot of sense. So what we can do is remove a lot of the, um, the weights of Java, a lot of the complexity of Java, and we can optimize for an environment where your code is maybe just running for a few microseconds as in the case of the function or something running in native, cause you scale up and scale down. >>So we move a lot of the op side. We move a lot of the, um, the, the efforts within the application, uh, to compile time, we pre compile all of your, of your config and initialization, so that doesn't have to happen in your, um, your, your, your runtime or your production environment. Um, and then we can optimize the code week. We can, we can remove that code. We can remove, you know, whole, uh, trees and class libraries and really slimmed down the memory footprint and radically, um, slim, the Maddie memory footprint, um, increase the startup time as well. So, you know, you have less downtime in your applications. Um, and we've recently done a S a study with ADC that shows some pretty stunning results compared to, you know, some existing frameworks. And, you know, we get, um, you know, sort of like, you know, overall cost savings of, you know, 60, 64%. >>Um, we can get eight times better density. You're running more in a, in a, in a cluster and, um, you know, reduction in memory up to 90% as well. So it's, these are significant changes now. That's all good, you know, saving, saving 60, 60% on your operational costs is significant. But what we find is that most organizations, they come for the performance and the optimizations, but what actually stay for is the speed of development. So I think, I think caucus real silver bullets is, um, the developer productivity, you know, for organizations, the cost of development is still one of the major costs. I mean, the operational costs, the hosting costs a significant, but development costs, time to market will always be top of mind for organizations that are trying to move faster than the competition. And I think that's really where, um, um, caucus special and coupled in, uh, in, uh, OpenShift or Coobernetti's environment really, really does shine. Yeah, >>It's pretty interesting. So people can go to corcus.io and see a lot of the statistics that you just referenced in terms of memory usage and speed and, and whole bunch of stuff. But what struck me when I went to the site was that was this big, uh, uh, two words that jumped out developer joy. And it's funny that you talked on that just now about really, um, the benefits that come to the developer directly to make them happier. I mean, really calling out their joy. So they're more productive and ultimately that's what you said. That's where the great value is in terms of speed of deployment, happy developers, and productive developers. You know, Miguel, you get your, you get down into the weeds of this stuff. Again, the presentations on your LinkedIn, everyone needs to go look and you talk a lot about at migration and you lot talk a lot about app modernization. So without going through all 120 some odd slides that I think you have, which is good, phenomenal information, what are some of the top things that people need to think about and consider both for app modernization as well as at migration? >>Um, that's, that's, that's an interesting question. Uh, the thing is that, um, the tolling is important on the current code is, and the thing is that normally when, when we started migration project, we tried to find architects in the applications to be able to find patterns. You know, you find parents is much easier because, uh, once you solve one part on the same part on can be solved in a very similar way. So this is one of the parts of that. We focus a lot, but before getting to that point, it's very important how you stop, you know, so the assessment phase is, is very important to be able to review well, what is the status of the applications, the context of the applications. And with that, I mean, things like, for example, the requirements that they have, there's the maintenance that they take in their resiliency and so on. >>So you have to prepare very well, the project by starting with a good assessment, you have to check which applications makes more, make more sense to start with and see which, how to group them together by similarities. And then you can start with the project that saying, okay, let's go for these set of applications that make more sense that are more likely to be containerized because of the way we are developing them because of the dependencies that they have because of the resiliency that is already embedded into them and so on. So that, that the methodology is important. And we normally, for example, when we, when we help partners do a application migration, one of the things that we stress is that this is the methodology that we follow and in the website for my vision, totally for application, you can find also, um, methodology, uh, part that, uh, could help, uh, people understand, okay, these, these are the stages that we normally follow to be successful with migrating applications. >>Yeah. Let go. You don't, we're not friends. We don't hang out a lot, but if we did, you would know I never ever recommend PowerPoint for anything. So, so the fact that I'm calling out your PowerPoint actually means something. Cause I think it's the worst application ever built, but you got some tremendous, tremendous information in there and people do need to go in and look, and again, it's all from your LinkedIn work, but I wanted to shift gears a little bit, right? We're at CubeCon cloud native con. Um, obviously it's virtual is 2020. That's the way the world today. But I just curious to get your guys' take on, on what does this, uh, event mean for you obviously really active, open source community, you know, red hat has a long open-source history. Um, what does CubeCon cloud native con mean for you guys? What do you hope to get out of it? What should people hope to, uh, to learn from red hat? >>Yeah, we, um, yeah, we're, we're buying your DNA. We're very, very collaborative. Uh, we, we love to learn from our customers, users of the technologies, um, in the communities that we support. Um, speaking as a, you know, we're both product guys, there's nothing better than getting with, um, people that actually use the products, um, in anger, in real life, whether they're products are upstream technologies, learning, learning, what they're doing, understanding where, um, some of the gaps are there's. Um, yeah, we just couldn't do our jobs without engaging with developers, users in these kind of conferences. Yeah. A lot of the, um, love interest we've seen with coworkers is, is in the community, you know, um, like I'd been part of many, many successful open source projects, um, um, over red hat. And it's great when your customers, you know, like, uh, Vodafone, Greece or Carrefour in Spain are openly publicly talking about how good your technology is, what they're using it for. And that's really good. So it's just nothing, there's no alternative that, you know, whether it be virtual virtually or physically sitting down with, uh, with users of your technology, >>How about you, Miguel? What are you hoping to get out of, uh, out of the show this year? >>Um, we are working a lot with, on Kubernetes in red hat, on, uh, as part of the community, of course. And, um, I mean, there are so many new stuff that is coming around, Kubernetes that, uh, it's mostly about it, about all the capabilities that were arming, especially for example, several lists, you know, several lessons, there is an important topic with crackers, because for example, as you make the application stopped so much faster and react so much faster, you could have known of them running and just waiting for an event to happen, which saves a lot of resources and makes us super efficient. So this is one of the topics, for example, that we wanted to cover in this edition, you know, how we are implementing serverless with Kubernetes and OpenShift and many other things like pipelines. Like, I don't know, we just had quite a visit in the, uh, uh, video, uh, life of what is coming up. I see for the six. And I recommend people to take a look at it, to get everything that's new because there's a lot. Yeah, >>Yeah. You guys are technical people. You've been doing this for a long time. Why is Kubernetes so special? W Y Y you know, there's been containers in the past, right. And we've seen other kind of branded open source projects that got a lot of momentum, but Kubernetes just seems to be blowing everybody out of the out of its path. Why, what should people know about Kubernetes that aren't necessarily developers? >>Yeah, there's really nothing interesting about a single container or a single microservice, right? That's not, that's not the kind of environment that, um, real organizations live in. They live in organizations where they're going to have hundreds of services, um, who just containers and you need a technology to orchestrate and manage that in that complex environment. And Kubernete's has just quickly become the, the district per standard. Um, yeah, folks are red hat jumped on my very, very early, um, I mean, one of the advantages around her have is where we're embedded with developers and open source communities. We often have a pretty good, it gives us a pretty good crystal ball. So we're often quick to jump on the emerging technologies that are coming out of open source. And that's exactly what happened with Cubanetis. It was clear. It was, um, you're going to be sophisticated for our, you know, most, um, most sophisticated customers running at scale. Um, but, but also, you know, great for development environments as well. So it really a good fit for, uh, where we were headed and, you know, just very, very quickly became the fact that standard. And you, you just gotta go with the de facto standard. Right, right. >>Right. Well, the another thing that you mentioned rich in that other interview that I was watching is it came up the conversation in terms of managing open source projects. And at some point, you know, they kind of start, and then, you know, I think this one, if I go to corcus and look at the bottom of the page sponsored by red hat, but you talked about, you know, at some point, do you move it over to a foundation, um, you know, and kind of what are the things that kind of drive that process, that decision, um, and, you know, I would imagine that part of it has to do with popularity and scale, is that something, you know, potentially down the road, how do you think that you said you've been in lots of open source projects, when does it move from, you know, kind of single point of origin to more of a foundational support? >>Yeah. I mean, in fact the foundation's owner was necessary. Um, you know, when you have a, yeah. If you, if you have a, an open, very open project with, um, um, clear, clear rules for collaboration and kind of the encouragement or others to collaborate and be able to, you know, um, move the project and, you know, the foundation as low as necessarily what we've seen, I've been part of the no GS world where, you know, the, the community reached Belden to keep no GS moving forward. Um, we had to go from a, what we call a benevolent dictator for life, somebody who's well-intentioned, but, um, yeah, we're on stone, the technology, so a foundation, which is much more inclusive and, um, you know, greater collaboration and you can move even quicker. So, you know, um, I think what's required is, is open governance for open source projects and where that doesn't happen. You know, maybe a foundation is, is the right way forward. Right, right now with, with caucus, um, you know, the, the non red hat developers seem pretty happy with the way they can get, uh, get engaged and contribute. Um, but if we get to a point where the community is demanding a foundation and we'll absolutely consider it, that's the best project we'll do. >>So, so we're, we're coming to the end of our time. I want to give you each the last word, really with two questions, one again, you know, just kind of a summary of, of, uh, of CubeCon cloud, native con, you know, what should people be looking for, uh, find you, and, and, and I don't know if you guys are sponsoring any sessions, I'm sure there's a lot of great content. If you want to highlight one or two things. And then most importantly, as we turn the calendars, we come to the end of 2020, uh, thankfully, um, as you look ahead to 2021, you know, what are some of your priorities, uh, as, as we get ready to turn the turn, the calendar, and Miguel let's start with you. >>So, um, I mean, we have been working very hard this year on the migration, took it for applications to help her every user that is using Java to bring the two containers. You know, whether it is data IE or these crackers, but we're putting like a lot of effort in crackers. And now we are bringing in new rules. And, uh, by the, by December, we expect to have the new version of the migration looking for applications that is going to include the, all the bulls to help developers bring their, their code to the Java code, to, to carcass. And, uh, on this, this is the main goal for us right now. We are moving forward to the next year to include more, more capabilities in that project. Everything's up on site. You can go to the conveyor, uh, project and ticket on, uh, on the up capabilities for the assessment phase. So whenever any partner, any, any of our consultants are working on, on migration or anyone that would like to go and try it themselves on adopted, would like to do these migrations to the cloud native world, uh, will feel comfortable with, with this tool. So that is our main goal in, in my, in my team. >>All right. And how about you rich? >>Yeah, I think we're going to see this, um, um, kind of syllabus solidification kind of web of, um, microservices. Um, you know, if you like hate that, I'm sorry, but I'm just going to next generation microservice. There's going to be, as Miguel mentioned, is gonna be based around, um, uh, native, um, advancing, um, serverless functions. I think that's really the, the, the ideal architecture, the building March services, um, on, on Coobernetti's and caucus plays really, really well there. Um, I think there's, there's a, there's a kind of backlog of projects, um, within organizations that, um, you know, hopefully next year, everything really does start to crank up. And I think, um, yeah, I think a lot of the migration that Miguel has talked about is going to be, is going to rise in terms of importance. So app modernization, taking those existing applications, maybe taking aspects of those and, you know, doing some kind of decomposition in some microservices using caucus and a native, I think we'll see a lot of that. So I think we'll see a real drive around both the kind of Greenfield, um, applications, uh, you know, this next generation of microservices, as well as pulling those existing applications forward into these new environments, don't give an answers. So it's going to be excellent. >>Awesome. Well, thank you both for taking a few minutes with us and sharing the story of corcus, uh, and have a great show. Great to see you and a really good the conversation. All right. He's Miguel, he's rich. I'm Jeff. You're watching the cubes ongoing coverage of CubeCon cloud native con 2020 North America. Virtual. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCube covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and intel along with its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCube live in Las Vegas. I'm Lisa Martin and we are coming to you from AWS re:Invent 19. I'm with Stu Miniman. This is our second day of two sets of theCube coverage. And we are pleased to welcome a couple of guests from Citrix. To my left is Matt Lull Managing Director of Global Strategic Alliances and we have Marissa Schmidt, Senior Director of Product Management. Guys, welcome to theCube. >> Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. >> Thank you. >> So here we are with 65,000 or so of our close friends with AWS. Matt you have been managing the AWS Citrix relationship, I think you said for about 10 years. >> I have. >> Give our audience an overview of what Citrix and AWS are doing and the evolution of this partnership. >> Well 10 years ago when we started Cloud was brand new, Amazon's re:Invent conference hadn't even started yet and nothing Citrix made worked on Amazon. And now we are pleased to say that everything Citrix makes works on Amazon. And we actually have hundreds of customers and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of users using Citrix on AWS everyday. And the pace of innovation in that last decade has accelerated. We've done more net new product innovation in the last 10 years than in the previous 20 before that. It's been a fast-paced environment. >> Well and a strong and growing partnership. I remember the first year I came to the show it was 2013 and I think Citrix had one of the largest booths at the conference there. You keep adding to that. Marissa, let's not bury the lead any further. There is some hard news dropped today. Help understand, help us share the new news today. >> Marissa: Yeah, absolutely. There are many announcements. It started yesterday actually at the keynote with the Outpost announcement. The we have the ADC validation with Outpost and the only ADC in that validation. And then we also have the ingress routing that also was announced yesterday and our solution integration into that. Both blogs went out yesterday. And then we had a press release this morning that talked about our quick starts with AWS quick start for Citrix ADC as well as the rest of the instant site that now we support. >> Okay, so I'd love to dig in a little bit on the Outpost if we can. >> Yes, sure. >> My background is networking too. So people have been geeking out trying to understand this. You know, some of the key, you know, the secret sauce inside of Outpost is that nitro chip from Annapurna help really extend what AWS is doing in the public Cloud to a customer's data center. Reminds me a little bit of what NetWorker has been doing for customer applications for quite a long time. So how do those pieces fit together? >> So for AWS right, the focus is for some of the customers that has more applications-centric that is on-prem, that has regulatory compliance requirements and for those customers that really want to do that hybrid with on-prem and Cloud, this is the best approach for them that they can use the on-prem solution with Outpost but put the VPX, the NetScaler ADC VPX on Outpost and provide that solution for hybrid customers that want to have the enterprise grade solutions on-prem and Cloud. >> I look at Outpost as more strategic than just a conversation or on a new piece of hardware and some new nitro hyper visors, right? This is Amazon's first move into hybrid Cloud which we've been doing since the beginning. And when you look at where Citrix ADC is already deployed, it is a leading piece of technology in the corporate data center in the DMZ, protecting the corporate assets. So now we have a situation where we've been helping Amazon with hybrid for a long time. Now they're moving their infrastructure onto premise and we're starting to combine our on-premise footprint with their on-premise footprint and its really actually an interesting time and place to be working not just with Citrix ADC, which is first, but in the future with things like Citrix SD-WAN, which is the other major piece of our networking portfolio. >> So when theCube was at Citrix energy, I think that was back in, I'm going to guess April, in the Spring. So many Cube shows, I lose track. We, Keith Jones and I were there for several days, got to talk with a lot of your customers, your leaders all about how ultimately the workforce, five generations in the workforce today, which kind of surprised me, but how everybody is distributed and that's how people need to work. Similar with how organizations are now hybrid multicloud. There's all of these technologies that need to work together in order to enable the worker to deliver what that business needs to drive differentiation. Talk to us a little bit about some of the parallels there in terms of what Citrix delivers to the workspace and how what you're doing with Amazon is going to allow businesses, whether its a retail organization or a bank to enable, ultimately, at the end of the day those workers to get stuff done wherever they are, so they can access applications whether they're on-prem or in the Cloud. >> So the workspace conversation is an interesting one and you used a word, hybrid multicloud, which you don't necessarily hear in Amazon circles a lot, they are the largest of the Clouds, right. But that said, our job is to deliver every application known to mankind, and that is those that are built on-premise by IT and those that are running as SaaS from any provider and there are companies that make important applications that also have Clouds. We tie all that together, right. So with the Citrix networking, the ability to terminate the end user's SSL session, we can see all the traffic, regardless of where it originated. We can tell what that user is doing in real time and we can apply new and innovative solutions like things that Amazon is a leader in around machine learning and artificial intelligence at the user level to say, is what this user is doing today normal for that particular user. Not for some other user, normal for you, and are you behaving unusually, cause if you're behaving unusually maybe there's something we need to click down in on. So we're looking really, really closely at how the world is evolving to move to where SaaS is happening. IT is losing control of the application servers and they're moving out into SaaS land. Many of them are on Amazon, some of them are elsewhere, and all of them have to be governed. And that's where we're really investing heavily and redefining what is Citrix for the future. >> Now so Matt, it's always interesting when people look at this space they're like, oh Cloud is changing everything, you know, Amazon is taking over the world. So I mentioned Citrix had the biggest booth back in 2013. There was a little product called AWS WorkSpaces that was announced and everybody was like, well, it was nice that Citrix had a long relationship with Amazon. I guess we won't be seeing them next year. Well, here we are 2019, strong partnership. Help us understand how that dynamic works out and how, you know, you worked through some of these coopetition environments. >> That's a fun one. So we run into coopetition across the board. We have some in the networking arena with core load-balancing services that exist in all the Cloud platforms. And we have a variety of startups in the Daas land. And when I look at WorkSpaces, it's a quality product for a simple user that needs it now and needs a small quantity. Some of the larger enterprises are looking at it for simplicity but when I look at what it's capable of doing and what it's total costs are versus what happens when we can deploy the 30-year mature solution from Citrix on Amazon, we still find a large percentage of the customers needs what Citrix delivers. So we have actually probably more Citrix WorkSpaces users on Amazon than on any other Cloud. It's depending on how you meter it. It's a little hard to say with total accuracy but it's been supported on Amazon for longer than anywhere else. And we know customers appreciate the combination of the two and we look at what AWS is able to provide from a platform perspective, you know, with a built-in high availability, built-in global reach, built-in global performance. Those things are all valuable to our customers and they deliver a great platform at a reasonable price. So we support that. At the same time, we're moving out of that market, that pixel remote presentation market, well, we're not moving out of it, we're moving beyond it. It is still a core part of our portfolio but our investments going forward are in delivering those applications into the intelligent workspace regardless of where they originate. Many of those user sessions won't actually be virtualized at all. They'll be controlled, governed, and secured with Citrix Workspace and Citrix networking technology but won't be dependent on things like DaaS, which is what you get out of those services like AWS WorkSpaces. >> Marissa, when I talk to customers, one of the biggest challenges they have is, you know, the changing portfolio of applications that they're dealing with. It's getting more complicated. It's gone from monolith to microservices, everything is distributed, you know, it's not just my data that's in the public Cloud, Edge now becomes a larger piece of the discussion. These are the types of solutions that Citrix has been helping a long time. What is different now about the application landscape and how Citrix is working with customers than it might have been a few years ago. >> What's different now is definitely the more modernization of the apps, right? The digital transformation was talked about in all the different keynotes yesterday and today. And as we do that we need to help our customers adapt with the applications that they do have whether it's the legacy apps or the more adaptable, flexible apps that can go to the Cloud with Kubernetes and that container environment but with Citrix solutions you can actually do that with Citrix ADC being in a container environment so we can provide that east west traffic with Citrix CPX while we also have the north south traffic for the legacy 3-tier web apps that's always going to be there for the majority of the customers, right. But what makes Citrix unique is that we do have single code base for Citrix ADC that can run in the traditional apps as well as now the east west traffic for all more modernized applications which is critical. And for Citrix overall, it's 3 pillars, right? One is the end user experience that's always got to be stellar. And number two is giving the customer a choice of which environment they want to work with. And lastly, it's providing security. And with the Citrix overall solution where Workspace from an end user perspective and the apps closer to the applications with the Citrix ADC together provides that end-to-end solution for our customers. >> Marissa, can you give us an example of, I presume as the Senior Director of Product Management you're in the field a lot, you talk with customers. Some of the things that AWS showed yesterday on stage, we saw Cerner talking about their healthcare transformation, we saw Goldman Sachs CEO go from D.J. to talking about how they have completely transformed their consumer finance business. What's an example that you think, when you're out in the field, really articulates the value that Citrix delivers enabling a business to truly transform to that? Regardless of the application infrastructure they're able to harness the data, extract insight from it and use it as a business differentiator. >> Yeah, so for our customers it really resonates, the Cerner one and Goldman Sachs because they're, you know, we deal with a lot of our customers that way, Especially in the healthcare industry. Whether they decide to go some of it in the Cloud, you still want to, what's important for them is that compliance, that security, that data protection. It still matters whether it's on-prem or in the Cloud environment. And so in that case, this is where our Citrix solution, as they decide to take some work loads on-prem or on the Clouds, they can still use this same feature-rich capabilities that Citrix ADC or the Workspace have to connect all their applications in one place and still get the initiatives that they need for their company to get the best our-wide as well as not having to do the day-to-day data center changes. Now they can be flexible by putting that in the Cloud. >> So if you look at how customers have been coming across Citrix and which portion of the customer organizations we've historically spoken to, you know, 20 years ago we talked to the desktop team and we were a solution by getting client server applications on the desktops, which was a big problem 20 years ago. It's not as much of a problem today but even as you move to browser-based environments, security and governance are more important than ever, right? We see it every day. Another company got hacked. Another situation happened. There was another consumer privacy breach. We see the rules and regulations coming out in a number of countries about how data has to be protected and companies become liable if there's problems. So, increasingly we're seeing companies come to Citrix and saying we need help with governance compliance and security. And increasingly we're marrying the unique networking capabilities that we have with the unique workspace or application desktop virtualization capabilities to create new and improved solutions that really kind of change the game for how end users get access to applications, remove the need to know passwords, which limits the ability to actually lose them, and simplify the process of making sure your data is where you believe it should be. >> Matt, you know, such a deep partnership, I'm curious, there's so many announcements that Amazon talked about, is there anything that's either jumped out at you or places beyond? We talked about some of the Outpost specific things but I think about machine learning is exciting a lot of people. People want to be able to plug into these environments either natively or through hybrid environments. Where does that play into your discussions with customers? >> So when we look at how Citrix is transforming what we do there's a lot of things that go on behind the scenes, we are a substantial Amazon customer. We are one of their largest. So, you can take for granted that we're consuming a lot of their cutting edge capabilities as we build our cutting edge capabilities. We're not necessarily directly exposing something like Amazon machine learning as a button in our environment but when you look at what they're doing with end user computing applications, they're moving into a world where, they mentioned in the keynote yesterday that one of their fastest growing services is Amazon Connect. One of our best use cases is for task workers and call centers. You might imagine that there's going to be a future there that we should be looking at. And so I do see the things that they're innovating becoming relevant to us in ways that are more than just about the infrastructure as a way to power servers, storage, and networking for Citrix environments but also becoming content, rich content, both Amazon-owned rich content and their SaaS ecosystem that's built on Amazon, all those startups they talked about this morning, all of them running in our Citrix Workspace. It requires us to have the right networking solutions in place, the right identify trust solutions in place and make it really easy for customers to consume as a service instead of a pile of bits that they get to construct themselves. >> Well Matt and Marissa, we thank you for joining us on theCUBE today at re:Invent telling us what's new with Citrix and what's new with the evolution of the partnership. Thanks for your time. >> It's a pleasure to be here. >> Thank you. >> For Stu Miniman, I am Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from AWS re:Invest 19. We'll be right back.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2017, presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hey, welcome back to the CUBE. We are live on day one of AWS re:Invent 2017. This is their sixth event, our fifth time here with the CUBE. I'm Lisa Martin, along with Justin Warren, my co-host. There are upwards of 40,000 plus, I've heard even 50,000 people are here, incredible three day event. And we are excited to be joined by another guest from BMC, Daniel Nelson, AVP of Product Management, Security, Compliance and Automation, welcome to the CUBE. >> Thank you so much for having me, I'm excited to be here. >> We're excited to have you here. So one of the things that I'd love to understand is when you talk to customers who are in the enterprise, on this journey to cloud as you know, that term is used a lot, what are some of the biggest challenges that they face knowing they have no choice but to do this? What are some of the biggest challenges that they face that BMC can help to mitigate on this journey? >> Oh, I'd be happy, absolutely. So one of the things about us is that for the past twenty years, we've been helping large enterprises help keep their environment secure, fully automated, be able to have greater efficiencies within their data centers. And as our customers are transitioning to a multi-cloud world, everything that they had to do back at the data center, they still have to do in the public cloud, it still has to be compliant, it still has to be secure, it still has to be governed. And so what we help our customers do is to make that transformation and be able to bring together those two worlds so while they currently are looking as a goal to use AWS, use public cloud, use private cloud, they still have to manage their internal systems and be able to provide one platform to do that is what BMC's all about. >> Yeah, I've been a longtime user of BMC products, back in the day, you know Control-M and some of the things-- >> Still a great product, lots of people use it. >> Absolutely, it was a great product and we used it a lot. So I know that BMC has that rich history and experience of being able to automate things, particularly in scale, so how is that translating across into the world of cloud? 'Cause to me it actually seems like it's basically the same problem. >> Oh, and it is, absolutely. So what it used to be, scale was the measure of number of servers that you have. Now it's much more number of applications that you have, the number of developers you have, the number of configurations you have to keep in touch with, the number of policies you have to enforce, so the scale problem's exactly the same, just the physical mechanism of what's scaling has changed and that is an added complexity to it. >> Yeah, so given that level of similarity and what you've been able to translate from the inside world across into the cloud, what is it that's different? What is the thing that people are struggling with and the customers are really challenged by in this journey to cloud? >> Well, in one word it's speed. So everything that you had to do in the past was at a particular cadence. And so if you're releasing applications once a year, once every six months, even once a quarter, there was a certain amount of slack in the system where if something went wrong, you had time to adjust, you had time to keep up with it. Well now that you're down to hours, minutes, sometimes even seconds, pushing out code all the time, updating your applications all the time, you can't operate, it's beyond human scale and so that's where things like automation being able to tie back to your core systems, be able to have all that automated governance control really helps, you know, all of our customers. >> Speed is one of the things that AWS has done extremely well continuing to-- what? Last year I think it was 1,017 new features and services. This year it's over 1,100 already and you know, Andy Jassy has been very vocal about speed and customer focus is what's helping them. So with that focus on speed and accelerating pace of innovation, how is BMC alike AWS in getting what customers need faster than your competitors? >> You know, absolutely. And so what AWS does really well is providing the core preeminence that the underlying, you know, building blocks of what you need and allowing you to assemble those very quickly to have you realize your own vision and your own dreams. What we do very well is keeping some guardrails on those building blocks and making sure that, you know, we've seen it all over the place. One developer makes a mistake and suddenly, you've got a data breach. Uh, you know, one piece of code doesn't get updated the way it should be or you have a password in GitHub somewhere and now all of a sudden, you know, all your data's out there and you're on the front page of Wall Street Journal. What we help our customers do is to keep out of that news and into the news of satisfying their customers and going fast. So while AWS helps you build things really quickly, we help you do that in the right way, that keeps you safe, keeps you compliant, and keeps you you know, within the normal, corporate governance. >> So what's your favorite example of a customer doing that, where they had this issue and then they came to BMC and you were able to help them to actually solve that problem; what's a great example? >> Well we obviously do a lot of business with a lot of big banks and we have one of our customers, is a very large bank, was hesitant about the cloud, was experimenting with it, and they started with just five projects and within six months that five, those five projects had ballooned up to 65 projects, and all without really governance control oversight. And then WannaCry hit and our customer was so nervous, so scared about it, that their only response was, since they didn't know what their exposure was, they just shut 'em all down, they just pulled the plug, and says, "We're not gonna do anything." And so what we did is we came in and provided them the ability to do that, to revive those innovation products, to provide the ability to build quickly, but also know where you are, how to be safe, and can continue to update, you know, your compliance and security posture with new information as it comes in. So it gives them that safety factor that they can feel safe. One of my favorite examples and one of the best metaphors I've had is one of my customers from Savience said, "You know, Daniel, look I love to go fast, but the last thing I want to do is put my problems on roller skates, like that doesn't do any good." And I was like , "That's what we're here to do. We're here to provide you, you know, those bumper rails on the bowling alley so you can go fast." >> I do love that problems on roller skates idea. >> I'm gonna use that. >> Yeah, I was feeling that one. >> Go ahead, I use it all the time. >> So you know, we talk a lot about a lot of buzzwords, a lot of hot terms, right? Uh, multi-cloud. I'm curious about what BMC is doing in multi-cloud. How does an enterprise understand what multi-cloud is? What's hybrid cloud? How do you guys help sort of break down some of these buzzwords into actions for your customers so they can be fast and competitive? >> So for me, if I were to sound out what multi-cloud really means is that you're choosing the best technology at the best price point for what the need of the business is. And sometimes that means running of the data center. And there are a lot of things in the data center that run, you know, more cheaply, more efficiently, but at a much more cost effective basis than they ever will in the cloud. And those things belong in the data center. And I think over time, you'll see the data center loads will actually increase, as well. There's some things that you have to go very quickly, you can be experimental with it, you have to have the DevOps team attached to, and the public cloud is great for those things. And then even within the public cloud space, there are things that Azure does well, there's things that AWS does well, and individual enterprises, especially large enterprises, which is our constituency, need to be able to make those choices and be able to do that for the best underlying reason of their technology. What BMC then provides you is ability to say whether it's OnPrem, whether it's in Azure, whether it's AWS, wherever you wanna run that, you know, we can provide you the controls and the compliance and the governance that you can be safe regardless. You get the same policies in place regardless of where that individual technology's targeted. >> Yeah, absolutely. And when talking with large, particularly large customers as you've point out, you only have to buy one other company and all of a sudden, you're multi-cloud. You might've decided, "You know what, we're all in on AWS." A different company that you'd buy for business reasons may have decided, "You know what, I wanna have some Azure, I wanna have some Google Cloud." It's like kaboom, you buy them and now all of a sudden, IT has this multi-cloud issue and they need someone who can help them to manage that. And really, you wanna be able to manage that in the same way across all of the different environments and I can see that that's where BMC would be really strong. >> You know, you're exactly right. Give me one of the great things, like this is a great show, and there's so many vendors and there's so much great technology here, but if you talk to Gardner or Forester or ADC or 451, one of the main things they'll tell you is you've got to have not individual tools for every individual problem, you need to have a platform in place that provides you the breadth of coverage where you have the ability to be flexible across those technologies. And that's another thing that BMC is offering in the market. >> Yeah, so one of the challenges of building that platform, though, is that you've got all of these little different silos that tend to just sort of build up all by themselves. And then when you come and try like the central IT comes along and says, "No, thall shalt use the one true solution." How do you actually provide the right level of flexibility for individual solutions that can be tailored in need, but still provide that scalability and sameness across everything that gives you those efficiencies in scale? How does BMC help you manage that? >> Well that's one of BMC's historical strongest parts of the offering, is the breadth of content, being able to support, you know, in the data center all of the different operating systems, all of the different applications. We do the same thing now by us forwarding all the different microservices within AVDS, all of the different microservices within Azure, being able to then provide that breadth of content so that the developer, himself, can choose whatever and then from a central IT standpoint, you know you've got the policies in place to be able to make sure that they're safe. Another one of my favorite expression is that developers will argue with people but they won't argue with systems. And so if you then being able to incorporate that, the compliance and control into the DevOps pipeline, into the DNAP driven-approach, where a developer does something that's outside of those guidelines and they just get an immediate response back saying, "No, I'm sorry, that's not allowed." or you know, "There's an air message in law." they're like, "Okay, well I gotta go fix that." verus being on the phone or having to go through any of that process. Developers are very argumentative about that. So what we do is be able to take that corporate IT perspective and just be able to eject it programmatically across all the different dev teams. >> I think our question we wanna pivot on the developer role for a second, you know, AWS has done a great job of attracting a lot of awareness in the developer community for a long time now. They've never really had to advertise, because this awareness was so strong, very sticky. We've seen them this year, sort of advertising, which as a marketer kinda signaled to me, interesting. We know that their massive growth rate isn't predicated upon us, you know, startups alone. That the enterprise is also a major play for AWS and they need to get to now, the CEO, the corporate board. I'm just curious, is BMC seeing in like a customer, like a large bank or an insurance company for example, where are you seeing the C-Suite help influence product development? How influential is that higher tier of management now as this transition becomes an absolute business imperative? >> Well, it's interesting because you see not only the rise of the CIO as a digital transformer within the business, you also see the CEO being more and more involved with us. And you also have the rise of the CSO. So being able to inject security into this conversation, and so you've got a monopoly of different voices that are all happening at the board level and that there's board visibility in the center of these things as well. But the board now pays attention to, "How are we developing our applications? Are they safe? Are they secure? You know, is there an existential risk to our business by the way that we're conducting ourselves from an information technology standpoint?" So those conversations are obviously happening. You know, we see them happening all the time, it's been really great for our business, because we've been working with these companies for years and years and years to help them be safe and compliant, to keep their banking licenses in order, things of that nature, and now we're just extending that to the cloud, as well. So we definitely see it and honestly, it's one of the things that we feel like is a core competitive advantage for us, is we have those relationships in place today and have for decades. >> Yeah, do you see yourselves going into customers in sort of a partnering relationship with AWS, particularly for those enterprises? I can see that, I mean IT has been wanting a seat at this table for so, so long. It's like, "Well, you've got one now. It happened to come from security which is possibly not the best introduction ever." But now that they have their seat at the table, how are you finding to manage that conversation to influence board level, which is a far different conversation than what it would be when you're talking about technical things? And even from developer land, it's like, "API's and so on", that's not really a board level conversation or is it? >> Well AWS is one of our strategic partners and so it's very easy for us to go into customers together, and be able to tell that message of, "Go safe but be fast at the same time." And so we're much more of an and-world now than an or-world, you know, that we were in the past. And the ability to make trade-offs with somebody that we all kinda took for granted, but now we really don't have that ability anymore, like we have to be all things to all people and that forces a lot of innovation. And it forces a lot of the kind of the new things that you're seeing everyday, no matter of AWS and other vendors as well. It's really an exciting time to be in information technology. >> Never a dull moment. And yeah I wanted to kinda pivot on it, symbiosis. Like how much business do you drive for AWS, but also conversely, how much does AWS sorta push BMC to innovate at their pace? >> Right, so you know, just being a AWS partner pushes you. Because you're now along for the ride and wherever they go, whatever they're doing, you know, our customers are looking at us and saying, "When do you support that? And how are you gonna support that?" You know, we want to be easing into these things and so we've had to put on ourselves, a very strict SLA that as soon as AWS gets someone new, we have to support it with our very breviated time, 'cause that's what our customers have had it and that's great 'cause it enforces us to innovate, forces us to do things in new ways and be able to you know, actually have a lot of the technologies, a lot of the processes in place that our customers, themselves are trying to emulate. So that's been wonderful. In addition to that, if you look at you know, how we're pushing AWS, AWS is definitely you know, is already in the enterprise, there's a lot of enterprises that already used us but being able to think about things from an enterprise standpoint is different than a developer bottom-up standpoint and so we've always been a lot more holistic about understanding what are the needs of the business? And especially from a C-Suite communication perspective, like how do we articulate and how do we do that well? And that's part of what we bring to the relationship. >> You mentioned a lot of customers are banks and insurance companies, I'm curious about healthcare. There's sort of an anticipation that Andy Jassy might be announcing a broader partnership with Cerner, who has 25% market share in electronic health records. Healthcare being historically slower to adopt cloud, massive security challenges there. What are you guys seeing in the healthcare space? What are some of the primary concerns there that you're helping to mitigate? >> Well so if you talk about healthcare, the first thing that everybody will talk about, especially in the IT space is HIPAA, right? So it's you know, what am I doing with my private data? If you talk about it from an AMIA perspective, you know, it's GDPR, you know, what are we gonna do about private data, how do we keep it segregated? You know, how do we not only have those mechanisms in place, but how do we ensure that they're in place, be able to prove that they are in place? And when our auditors come to us, we can provide them all that data. And that's exactly what BMC provides. So we have out of the box content for HIPAA compliance, for SOX, for PCI, for anything that you want to do. And so we can just look at your systems or they're in the data center or in the cloud, tell you exactly how they need to be configured, and then also I'll remediate them for you. So we can take that next step and provide the automation in place for you, so that you can actually then just worry about running your business. So it's a really, really interesting vertical for us to go into 'cause of our history and 'cause of our background. >> Yeah, there's gonna be so much growth in that area. I mean, even from my part of the world, down in Australia. We've got our electronic health records is a big, big thing with the whole program of work that's involved in putting that in, being able to keep that data safe, but also useful. It's gonna be a big challenge and I can only see it getting larger. >> Oh right, absolutely. And it's important for us not to lose sight that the end person we're protecting is the consumer. The end person we're protecting is the individual who that's their data, like they own that, and so it's our job and our duty to do the best we can for our customers to protect that. And ultimately, that's the value. >> Last question for you, some of the things that have come out already in the last day and a half or so, from AWS on AI, what are you seeing in terms of customers' comprehension of machine learning and what the potential is for them to truly become data driven, leveraging advanced technologies like that? >> So we're definitely in the hype cycle with AI, right? I mean and I think we all kinda know that. I think when you talk about machine learning and basing and reasoning and-- it's all part of the cape on having the data in place to do the analysis on. And so just like we saw with the data, it's like, "Oh I want big data, but then now what do I do with it?" Now, we have AI machine learning for the people that do have large data sets, they can start to do some interesting analysis, they can start to do some interesting things. But you have to have the data first, before you start to apply the actual algorithms to it. 'Cause the algorithm, you know, just give it two data points, it's not gonna be very smart. Give it two trillion and it's gonna be able to do some really interesting things. >> So what can people see and learn and touch and feel at the BMC booth here? >> So just this week, we launched a new product called policy service, which is policy and compliance for public cloud and for DevOps pipelines, so we'd love to show anybody who wants to come by a demo of that, we're very excited about it. Also it ties back to our core automation and so if you have to do something also in the data center, we can bring those two worlds together for you. >> Excellent. Well Daniel Nelson, thank you so much for joining us. You're now in the CUBE alumni. >> Alright, that's exciting, I appreciate it. >> And I'm Lisa Martin, for my co-host Justin Warren, we are live from day one of our three day coverage at AWS re:Invent 2017, stick around, we'll be right back. (techno music)